Hello fishies... we have questions

[koikeepr]

Well we went and reread the DIY section. It is taking us a while on some of the media. I know that my info says Atlanta Ga but I actually live about 50 mile south of there in a really rual area.

At this point we are leaving the fiber fill in the drum because the water is still green and every time that we turn the pump off that feeds the drum....the drum drains back into the pond we need to add a ball valve here.

We will be taking the rock out over the weekend (we don't have a grate in the bottom of the tank, but will be putting one in this weekend also)

From what I am reading alot of these tanks fill from the top but go thru a pipe to the bottom so this is how we are thinking about setting up the media bottom to top:
Grate (with about a 6 inch gap for poop on the floor of the tank)
2 or 3 different types of floor buffer pads (scrubbies)
plastic construction fencing for the bio media
grate on top (if media floats)


Should we put some kind of areation pump in the filter (We have seen mixed reviews on this)

All of our pumps are submersible

Yall (my southern for the day) have been helpful and we thank you so much.

To prevent the water from sliding back into the pond when the pump cuts off, you need to add a swing check valve (flapper type). You can get this at any local big box home improvement store in the plumbing section. In the case of a storm our power outage, if your pump cuts out, your water will stay put in the barrel. A ball valve will not do this task.

Most of these barrels actually fill from the bottom, but you can do one that feeds from the top too. The most important thing is that dirty water has to get and stay on the bottom, because it is heavier than clean water--which will rise to the top of the barrel. So you have to make sure clean water is able to rise and exit out the top portion of your barrel.

It is a great idea to throw air into the barrel. It makes the colonizing bacteria extremely happy and healthy--which is what you want.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

To prevent the water from sliding back into the pond when the pump cuts off, you need to add a swing check valve (flapper type). You can get this at any local big box home improvement store in the plumbing section. In the case of a storm our power outage, if your pump cuts out, your water will stay put in the barrel. A ball valve will not do this task.

Most of these barrels actually fill from the bottom, but you can do one that feeds from the top too. The most important thing is that dirty water has to get and stay on the bottom, because it is heavier than clean water--which will rise to the top of the barrel. So you have to make sure clean water is able to rise and exit out the top portion of your barrel.

It is a great idea to throw air into the barrel. It makes the colonizing bacteria extremely happy and healthy--which is what you want.





so we have been working hard today. Had to tear out part of the waterfall to put in the swing check valve... I think that we are going to love it. Thaks for the advice on that.

Sill working and Wow we jumped in feet first on this and should have eased into it... It has been alot of work but when we can get it right we will enjoy it so much.

I am wanting to try and get a clarifier to help but should I? Any recomendations on what type to get? Should we add salt or not?

Again Thank you all for the help

 

[koikeepr]

No salt unless you have an illness. Keep pond salt in reserve for when it's needed.

Not sure what you mean by clarifier... Are you talking about a UV light or some chemical you put in the water to clear things up? If it's the latter, I don't recommend that. You need to let the pond colonize the bacteria and settle. That takes 6-8 weeks. Try to avoid chemicals and let things happen naturally as much as possible.

 

[Squidhead]

not to be arguementitive, but...the right furnace filters for the job are of a latex material not fiberglass, some scrubbies may break down but ive yet to see any breakdown on mine or the furnace filters i use...3rd year of use on my media,and my media is in use 24/7/365.. my water clarity and parameters are fantastic,ive yet to lose a fish to anything but a heron. and i have yet to even clean my media, other than regular filter flushes....more than opinion, this is my experience.

I apologize for my bad choice of wording......so much for proofreading:redface: I meant no offence and I am glad you pointed it out to me. I usually try to be more careful with my choice of words.

I do agree with you. My intent was to warn that all furnace filters and scrubbies are not made the same. (unless scrubbies is a particular brand name. If so, I didn't know). There are different materials in both, and different quality in both. I was just warning not to use the fiberglass or micro glass ones. I have never seen NaturalAire latex coated filters before. Since you have had them for 3 years and they haven't broken down they are definately usable. I haven't researched them and am not trying to be a PITA with my next comment, but I am curious what the Natural material is that the latex coats. Also, if the latex coating wont eventually break down, 3 years is great for their cost either way, my only question is " what is their life time expectancy under water?".
I have seen and used on a furnace only, the unframed filters that you cut to size. They where blue polypropylene just like matalas. This was a few years ago and I got them from either Home Depot or WalMart. Wish I could find them here in NC, haven't came across them yet.

For the scrubbies, I just plainly wasn't thinking! I knew someone here used them, couldn't remember exactly, but same "excuse", wording. The green 3M brand is what I was refering to and some other kind, I'm not sure what brand. I'm sure they are made of some sort of polyethlene or poly-something too. Now for dishwashing I buy whatevers cheapest. When used for washing I noticed some brands shred and fall apart easier then others. Some of the dyed ones flake and run dye. Either way I don't think the dye will hurt, I'd hope, and I can't say what the flaked material would do. Those scrubbies are the only ones I'd stay away from for those reasons. You and others have found ones that work.

Unless I got a specific brand and style that wouldn't break down, I wouldn't use them unless I gave them some sort of test. Even if others where successful with the same brands I found to be a problem. The reason for me goes back to aquarium keeping. I used to use the rock floss that potted aquarium plants came in right in my tank. One of my fish pulled the floss apart and the stuff was floating around in the water. Almost all the fish in that tank had got a red irritation in their gills. After researching it, I found that most people reccomend removing rock floss for this reason. Some people contradicted saying they have used it for years with no such problems. I'm a little cautious of what I put in now. I know these are 2 different materials for 2 different purposes, but the same logic applies. It's what you feel is OK or not OK that matters. You or anyone else may never have a problem and I may be worried about something that wont even happen. With that it doesn't mean things wont change or haven't changed with products used. I have an open mind and am not affraid to re-research or retest things. Scrubbies included.

Again, I didn't intend to contridict your experience or opinion. I am not offended if you correct me or even just disagree. Your pond and fish are deffinately healthy. I like the fact that you don't use the UV for more then a week if needed. That just goes to show your water parameters are balanced. I don't believe excessive algae or unwanted algae is something that can't be corrected and you have shown that. OK, I really got to get back to the pond now.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

No salt unless you have an illness. Keep pond salt in reserve for when it's needed.

Not sure what you mean by clarifier... Are you talking about a UV light or some chemical you put in the water to clear things up? If it's the latter, I don't recommend that. You need to let the pond colonize the bacteria and settle. That takes 6-8 weeks. Try to avoid chemicals and let things happen naturally as much as possible.

well I havent been on here in a while and thought that I would add a little update.
We did not add any clarifier or any chemical to clean the green out of the water. We bought a UV light and the pond is crystal clear and we are loving that.

On a sadder note we have had a large number of the goldfish that have died. On closer inspection the seemed to have fin rot. So we add some salt to help build up a slime coat (we really didn't know what to do alot of research on the internet with alot of conflicting information) The we noticed the fish "flashing". Well we researched internet quickly because we didn't want to lose any more fish. So we had in narrowed down to "flukes". We didn't discover this until late Sat night and had to wait until Sunday to buy something to help these poor guys. We did a 50% water change and then added Quick Cure by AP pro pond. The active ingredients in this product is Formalin and Malachite Green. Hope that we are treating with the right thing. It says that it is an ick and parasite medication. Says that it effectivley treats "ick, fluke outbreaks, gasping for air, flicking, protozoan parasites,costia,chilodonella,trichodina.

Now we have noticed that there are worm looking things attached to some of the fish. Will this medication treat whatever it might be. (maybe anchor worms?)

I know that with the parasite remover you have to add benificial bacteria back to the pond so we also have EGOFIX to add back but there is one more day of the quick cure then a 25%? water change and then add to add bacteria.
Thank you guys so much for all the help

 

[koikeepr]

Worm like creatures hanging off the body of the fish is anchor worm, yes,

I just looked at my QuICK cure bottle and it says it can handle "mild" fluke outbreaks. For Flukes, Praziquantel is what is used. PraziPro is one such product sold in aquarium stores that treats Flukes, Tapeworms, Flatworms, etc without harming the fish or plants. Another handy product is Anchor Control (by ECO RX).

Salt was a good option to start with along with the QuICK cure. Hold off on your bacteria until your fish are cured and you are assured you won't need to re-treat. You are not mentioning the days since this started or how long you've been treating.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

We noticed the fin rot on Thursday and reserched that and treated with salt. Then on Sat we noticed the flashing and did a 50% water change and started the quick cure on Sunday morning. The Bottle said treat in 3 days and the last treatment will be tomorrow. Then I am not sure if we should do a water change and if this stuff will even touch anchor worms? The only place that we could find that had anything on a Sunday here was a Petsmart and this is what they had to treat with. We are still trying to find a local pond supplier that will carry some of this stuff but if we can't we wil order online but I know that we need some stuff now.


Didnt mean to get that far into it LOL...so here it is summarized
Treated with salt on Thursday
Sat morning 50% water change
Then Sat noticed flashing

Sunday at about 2 pm we treated with quick cure
Monday about 2pm treated with qucik cure again

Have to treat Tuesday at 2 pm with quickcure and then what?

 

[koikeepr]

What have you noticed with the fin rot? Any improvement? Fins can take a long time to recover...

Do you notice any reaction to the anchor worm from the treatment? How badly were the fish affected with anchor worm?

Hopeful, I can't recall if I've asked this question previously, but had you been doing weekly water changes of at least 20% previously? Have you tested your water?

Usually fin rot (in particular) and parasites taking over is a sign of poor water quality. I remember you said you had rocks in the pond--so that usually means detrius and poop potentially weakening water quality. Did you happen to buy any new fish, plants or snails where anchor worm could have hitched a ride from someone else's pond?

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

The fin rot we only noticed once the fish were in such bad shape that there was nothing to do ( they were gone to the meat on one side) These were our goldfish. The other fish that are still living seem to be fine in the fin and tail areas.

The best way for me to tell you on the anchor worm is fish by fish on the Koi
We have a 6 inch orange and white koi that we noticed "flashing" on Saturday night
Started treatment on Sunday and this one doesnt seem to be "flashing" anymore
Then we have a koi that is solid orange about 4 inches long and a white koi with speckles about 4 inches long and they were flashing a little today but the Orange and white koi is no longer flashing and seems to be fine
They are all eating well again (still timid but we are trying to work on that)

The only koi we have seen anchor worms on is the 4 inch orange one. The goldfish have had some but it hasnt been to bad. Do you have to pull the worms off the fish after you treat for them?

We have been doing water changes weekly....actually with all the filter modifications we have had to do them about twice a week for this past week. About a 20% change every week now.

We have tested the water and the ph was low and we raised it to 7.5. Nitrates are 0. Nitrite are 0.Total Hardness is 150.
Alaklintiy is 180. Amonia level is 0.
This was after a water change of 50% so I am sure that it was bad before.

All rocks were removed when we found out that it was bad for the pond. There was only about 5 in the bottom to direct hoses but we didnt want to fight that so we moved them.

We had a guy give us a plant that is underwater (cant remeber the name but starts with an "A" the he said came from another pond last week and there were no worms in the pond until that point

 

[koikeepr]

ok, your post is very helpful.

I hate to say it, but the anchor worm could have hitched a ride on that plant. This is a reason I never buy plants or fish from anyone (unless i can truly, truly, truly verify the quality of their system). I don't have any plants now, but I only bought those at nurseries for this very fear. Of course, people trade plants all the time successfully, but it makes me too nervous to do so.

So, it sounds like your water changes have been more recent and getting the rocks out probably stirred things up and of course worsened the water quality when you did that.

So, at the moment, your pond is in a delicate state. You need to keep up with your water changes to really get that water in shape.

You can remove anchor worm with a tweezer, but you really need to know what you're doing as it really stresses the fish. If the meds work and the annchor worm is killed, then the worm just falls right off. If it is not killed, it can jump on another host. There are medicated foods (Jungle is one manufacturer), that make parasitic foods. The fish eats the food and as the worm is gnoshing on the fish, it kills them. I always have medicated food on hand and give it to the fish as a preventative every month or two.

I would do a partial water change on day 3 of the Quick Cure, which I think might be today based on your info and do another treatment. If in three days you haven't noticed the anchor releasing it's grip--you need to have an anchor specific treatment on hand.

It's important to have these things in a first aid chest so you can be ready to pull the trigger immediately when needed and not have to wait for stuff to come in the mail. Anchor worm and other parasites can wreak havoc in a short period of time.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Thought that I would jump on here and give a pond update. It seems that the fishies have been doing better. They are eating alot better and dont seem to be flashing anymore (we will be keeping an eye on them to see though)

We got rid of the plant that was introduced right before the flashing started.
Regular water changes seem to be helping and the doc bio filter is GREAT!

Crossing our fingers that everything stays on a good course.

Thanks for all the help

 

[DrDave]

Happy to hear that all is well now.

 

[koikeepr]

Thank you for that update! Normally we hear about problems and then sometimes don't get what happens later. I'm so happy to hear the fish are better.

Water changes are the cheapest way to prevent illness and problems. Keep 'em up.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Thought that I would stop by here and leave another update.
The fish are doing great. We are down to about 40 fish now ( a big loss) but I know that we had to get rid of some so we are taking it in stride.

No more fish have died in about 2 weeks and there are no signs of anchor worms or fin rot

Happy Ponding

 

[koikeepr]

congratulations!

Keeping your load lower will help matters. Even with 40 fish you are overloaded, so keep up those water changes every week.

Glad to hear you've restabilized the pond.