Hello fishies... we have questions

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Hello all,
I thought that I would stop by here first and leave a note about myself and our pond.

We have a self made pond that is 1,200 gallons and at the deepest point is 18 inches. (We would like to have made it deeper but laws here say that anything deeper than 18 inches requires a 4 foot fence). This pond is made out of a pool liner.

At this point we have about 90 comet goldfish and 5 koi. The smallest koi is about 3 inches and the 4 bigger ones are about 5 inches.

We have several floating plants, 2 lillies and 2 hardy canna. The pond store gave us a strange plant that floats under the water surface as an oxgenator (he said the plant name started with an A but could not remeber the name).

We have a 560 gph pump in a mechanical filter box that runs a foutian and a spitter. We also have a 100 gph pump that is running a small water feature. And the last pump that we have is a 2000 gph pump that is split. One hose runs into a biofilter that holds about 2 gallons of water and then goes out to the water fall which is about 18 inches above the pond surface. The other hose runs into the bottom of the pond with a cap on the end and holes drilled into the hose for circulation at the bottom (we did this in the hopes that it will push the trash off the bottom into the filter)

Just wondering a few things about what is going on with our pond

1) Does it seem like we have the right equipment and the right amount?

2) Our water seems to turn green when it rains? We have changed the water once because we can't get it cleared up and we know that it is bad to do a full water change so any help here would be great. We have tried aglaecide and it doesn't help. We also use blue tint in the water.

3) How often (if ever) should we clean the biofilter and the mechanical filter?

Any help would be great. We don't want to lose the fish that we have. Thank you

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

I forgot to mention that we have well water and that is how we fill our pond

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

oh and it is a pressurized biofilter

 

[Squidhead]

Hello all,
I thought that I would stop by here first and leave a note about myself and our pond.

We have a self made pond that is 1,200 gallons and at the deepest point is 18 inches. (We would like to have made it deeper but laws here say that anything deeper than 18 inches requires a 4 foot fence). This pond is made out of a pool liner.

At this point we have about 90 comet goldfish and 5 koi. The smallest koi is about 3 inches and the 4 bigger ones are about 5 inches.

We have several floating plants, 2 lillies and 2 hardy canna. The pond store gave us a strange plant that floats under the water surface as an oxgenator (he said the plant name started with an A but could not remeber the name).

We have a 560 gph pump in a mechanical filter box that runs a foutian and a spitter. We also have a 100 gph pump that is running a small water feature. And the last pump that we have is a 2000 gph pump that is split. One hose runs into a biofilter that holds about 2 gallons of water and then goes out to the water fall which is about 18 inches above the pond surface. The other hose runs into the bottom of the pond with a cap on the end and holes drilled into the hose for circulation at the bottom (we did this in the hopes that it will push the trash off the bottom into the filter)

Just wondering a few things about what is going on with our pond

1) Does it seem like we have the right equipment and the right amount?

2) Our water seems to turn green when it rains? We have changed the water once because we can't get it cleared up and we know that it is bad to do a full water change so any help here would be great. We have tried aglaecide and it doesn't help. We also use blue tint in the water.

3) How often (if ever) should we clean the biofilter and the mechanical filter?

Any help would be great. We don't want to lose the fish that we have. Thank you

I'll take a stab at this-
First thing I would say is that your fish load is HUGE for your sized pond. Especially just starting out.

1. The bio-filter sounds small. It holds 2 gallons of water? The amount of bio media is what is really important. 2 gallons for 25 fish is not going to cut it. Check into the DIY section and there is a sticky for a stock tank filter and a few other 55 gallon ones. 55 gallon filter per 1000 gallons is recomended. To add, the gph rating of your pumps are rated at 1 foot or less of "head loss".
2. The green could be an algae bloom because of the fish load. Maybe it's from the blue tint and rain mixture. I would cut the blue tint out to help isolate the problem. Is this tint really necessary?
3. Clean the bio-filter media as needed. Big chunks of crud restricting flow, etc. The mechanical media should be cleaned weekly or as needed so as not to restrict flow. Usually this is done with a weekly partial water change.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Thank you squidhead.

A couple of other questions: about how many fish can we have? Our pond size is 18 feet by 12 feet with a shelf that runs the length of the pond and is about 2 feet wide and 6 inches deep.

We were thinking that we needed a bigger biofilter. What I researched on biofilters said that they will contain good bacteria and we just wondered if frequent cleanings of the bio will eleminate the good bacteria.

We put the blue dye in because we thought that it would help block the sun and also for cosmetic because we have a blue and white speckled liner in the bottom (planning on changing that next spring).

As far as we can tell, all the 55 gallon drum biofilters are gravity fed. Is there a way to make these work with a pump? We would have to place one that is gravity fed so far away from the pond for it to be out of the way that we are not sure how it would work?

Again thank you for the quick response

 

[Squidhead]

Thank you squidhead.

A couple of other questions: about how many fish can we have? Our pond size is 18 feet by 12 feet with a shelf that runs the length of the pond and is about 2 feet wide and 6 inches deep.

We were thinking that we needed a bigger biofilter. What I researched on biofilters said that they will contain good bacteria and we just wondered if frequent cleanings of the bio will eleminate the good bacteria.

We put the blue dye in because we thought that it would help block the sun and also for cosmetic because we have a blue and white speckled liner in the bottom (planning on changing that next spring).

As far as we can tell, all the 55 gallon drum biofilters are gravity fed. Is there a way to make these work with a pump? We would have to place one that is gravity fed so far away from the pond for it to be out of the way that we are not sure how it would work?

Again thank you for the quick response

You have plenty of surface area, just such a shallow depth. The estimation of 1200G sounds about right. It's just the water volume isn't enough to dilute the toxins that will collect without doing several water changes weekly. All you need to do for cleaning the bio-filter media is shake it off or swish it in a bucket or basin of pond water you are removing. Or if you are pumping the water out use the stream of water from the pond to rinse it. It will be a little cruddy and should have an earthy smell, like rich freshly dug soil.

Both that I have seen of the DIY 55 Gallon drum and Stock Tank filters on the DIY section are actually pump fed. Same premise to pump feed them and have a gravity return feed. You will have to have some sort of pre-filter before the pump. Are you using a submersible pump ?

 

[koikeepr]

The 55g barrel I have on the DIY section is gravity fed. It's my old filter....all I can say is now that I have a pump fed barrel---I really, really, really miss my gravity fed filter.

If you have the ability to gravity feed, it's the way to go. Squidhead happens to be one of the lucky folks that has the ideal layout for it. He can put his stock tank in a position below water line without having to dig an inch based on how his properly slopes. Sigh! What a dream! I miss water being my natural equalizer and never fearing an overflow because water finds it's own natural level....sigh again!

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

Ok so we have made a few changes today.

We havent gotten rid of any fish as of yet (but will do)

We rebuilt the water fall and now before the water is pumped it goes into the bottom of a 30 gallon drum. The bottom layer in the drum is rocks, then fiber fill. At this point that is all that we have in there because we have to get to the store but we really arent sure what else to use. (maybe NEW bath scrubbies, new mop heads (not the string kind) and I can be crafty so I had thought about crocheting with cotton string a bag to put the fiber fill in because it floats and would be easier to get out when it needs cleaning (can I used dyed material though). So then it flows from 2 pipes inserted into the sides near the top to the waterfall and back into the pond.

 

[koikeepr]

First thing I would do is get rid of the rocks. Rocks are extremely difficult to clean, and just serve to trap poop and detrius that will just sit there stuck and rotting. No rocks in ponds or filtration. Fiberfill is also not a good long term media. It is good for a temporary fines situation, where you are trying to remove suspended stuff for a few days, and that is all. You also can't crochet a bag, as yarn breaks down very quickly in a filter. If you need a bag of some kind, you make it out of cheap bird netting you can find at home improvement stores or a plastic laundry bag.

Again, go to the DIY section, and you will see some great ideas for barrels, stock tanks and filter media. None of them show rocks on the inside. We do want to help you, but you also have to do the reading/research we are pointing you to.

The bottom of the barrel should be left open so that the poop can collect there in an easy manner and then you can flush it out weekly. Next comes a layer of mechanical media such as matala, scrubbies or other such spongey material to prevent poop from rising in the filter and keeping it down in the waste area. Finally, there is a layer of bio media which serves as a home to colonizing bacteria. This can be strapping, PVC bits, etc. You will see samples of all this on the DIY section.

Please go read this section so you get a deeper understanding of how these filters and their contents are constructed.

 

[Squidhead]

Koikeeper is right, don't use cotton yarn anyway. Cotton will break down and rot. The rotting cotton will emit ammonia. Any material used in the pond should be nylon, polypropylene. Just my opinion on scrubies and fiberglass air filters - Scrubies are usually dyed and the dye will leach out and some particulate chunks will wash out - is this harmful to fish, most likely not, haven't really explored them in any research yet. The thing I don't like is they just dont seem to hold together as well as other materials. Fiberglass furnace filters, same thing, they break down to a degree. The concern to me here is fiberglass irritating the fishes gills. Polypropylene furnace filters are fine as long as you can find one that doesn't have too tight of weave. I just ended up getting the matala mats, they have been on sale by a few different online stores for a few weeks now, about $22 for a 1/2 sheet. Fiberglass in a solid form like rods and basins isn't a problem, just the more "fiberous" fiberglass. Bird netting is a fine media bag it's usually a polypropylene or nylon mesh. I have even used produce bags like the ones onions and other produce come in. When I finish my media bags some day very soon, I will be selling the left over strapping in the for sale area on this forum. I should only need about 1/2 of what I have.

 

[koiguy1969]

not to be arguementitive, but...the right furnace filters for the job are of a latex material not fiberglass, some scrubbies may break down but ive yet to see any breakdown on mine or the furnace filters i use...3rd year of use on my media,and my media is in use 24/7/365.. my water clarity and parameters are fantastic,ive yet to lose a fish to anything but a heron. and i have yet to even clean my media, other than regular filter flushes....more than opinion, this is my experience.

 

[koikeepr]

You're not being argumentative, koiguy--you are presenting a different viewpoint. That's what we love here.

Koiguy, can you post a direct link to these furnace filters? I guess I always think of them being framed in cardboard or paper and don't know the ones you always talk about. I'm assuming these are framed in plastic? A link would be great if you could find one. I am interested in seeing these.

 

[koiguy1969]

they arent framed at all....

 

[koikeepr]

I swear I never see these at my local home improvement place. Is it Home Depot that sells 'em? Where do you get em? I have to look, as I really want to see how they are made close up.

 

[hopefulkoikeeper]

First thing I would do is get rid of the rocks. Rocks are extremely difficult to clean, and just serve to trap poop and detrius that will just sit there stuck and rotting. No rocks in ponds or filtration. Fiberfill is also not a good long term media. It is good for a temporary fines situation, where you are trying to remove suspended stuff for a few days, and that is all. You also can't crochet a bag, as yarn breaks down very quickly in a filter. If you need a bag of some kind, you make it out of cheap bird netting you can find at home improvement stores or a plastic laundry bag.

Again, go to the DIY section, and you will see some great ideas for barrels, stock tanks and filter media. None of them show rocks on the inside. We do want to help you, but you also have to do the reading/research we are pointing you to.

The bottom of the barrel should be left open so that the poop can collect there in an easy manner and then you can flush it out weekly. Next comes a layer of mechanical media such as matala, scrubbies or other such spongey material to prevent poop from rising in the filter and keeping it down in the waste area. Finally, there is a layer of bio media which serves as a home to colonizing bacteria. This can be strapping, PVC bits, etc. You will see samples of all this on the DIY section.

Please go read this section so you get a deeper understanding of how these filters and their contents are constructed.

Well we went and reread the DIY section. It is taking us a while on some of the media. I know that my info says Atlanta Ga but I actually live about 50 mile south of there in a really rual area.

At this point we are leaving the fiber fill in the drum because the water is still green and every time that we turn the pump off that feeds the drum....the drum drains back into the pond we need to add a ball valve here.

We will be taking the rock out over the weekend (we don't have a grate in the bottom of the tank, but will be putting one in this weekend also)

From what I am reading alot of these tanks fill from the top but go thru a pipe to the bottom so this is how we are thinking about setting up the media bottom to top:
Grate (with about a 6 inch gap for poop on the floor of the tank)
2 or 3 different types of floor buffer pads (scrubbies)
plastic construction fencing for the bio media
grate on top (if media floats)


Should we put some kind of areation pump in the filter (We have seen mixed reviews on this)

All of our pumps are submersible

Yall (my southern for the day) have been helpful and we thank you so much.