GoldFish are laying on the bottom of my pond !!

[rocket_j_squirrel]

Very sorry to hear of this struggle. This beginner knows nothing helpful. Best wishes down this road.

 

[ChefTim]

Not a big proponent of water changes myself. I know it's an either or subject, but I just think that it's an aquarium keeping convention that many have carried over into ponds and they just aren't the same thing. Your pond gets fresh water in the form of top offs and rain, but the whole goal of getting a balanced pond is maturing the pond water. We were told early on that it can take three full years for a pond to find it's balance. Constantly changing out the water is only going to delay or prevent that from happening.

Just my two cents!

I have heard this but have found NO support for it in small amounts of water. Maybe at around the 1000 gallon mark it will do the mother nature thing. But in small pools of water you need to maintain the water quality somehow. I have had fish for 40 years and the only fish I have lost in this exchange was saltwater. But I still do it smaller batches. Balance is key true but do you have all the plants, bio filters, etc. Water can become toxic with algae blooms, medication, parasites. ALL of these tell you to do water changes.

 

[Rach B]

How are your fish now, are they getting any better

 

[ChefTim]

Not a big proponent of water changes myself. I know it's an either or subject, but I just think that it's an aquarium keeping convention that many have carried over into ponds and they just aren't the same thing. Your pond gets fresh water in the form of top offs and rain, but the whole goal of getting a balanced pond is maturing the pond water. We were told early on that it can take three full years for a pond to find it's balance. Constantly changing out the water is only going to delay or prevent that from happening.

Just my two cents!

Like I said. When the body of water is large enough to cycle by nature then water changes may not be needed. A small little hole in the ground is not going to support more than a few fish.

 

[Lisak1]

A small little hole in the ground is not going to support more than a few fish.

I would agree totally with that - a reduction in fish load makes sense.

Out of curiosity, why would an algae bloom make a pond toxic? And how would a water change help with parasites?

 

[ChefTim]

When you use any medication or treatments they all recommend water changes with the treatment. Algae at high levels will kill fish.

 

[Jhn]

@ChefTim the water change recommendation when medicating fish is to remove the treatments/medication when the treatment is done not the parasite in the tank or water feature. Changing out water will do nothing to get rid of the ich parasite or any parasite for that matter. It may improve water quality thus improving fish health and in turn enabling the fishes immune system to fight off the parasite.

Kind of a general statement algae at high levels kill fish, what is considered a high level ....Algae in and of itself at high levels will not kill fish, now if it dies off it can consume the oxygen in the water killing the fish, but that would have to be alooot of algae and is usually preceded by the individual dumping some chemical in the pond to kill off the algae.

To the OP, how are the fish doing? Is the treatment working?

In the future Inspecting the dead fish to see if you can determine cause of death, to prevent guessing about what is wrong would be helpful. Laying on the bottom can be a sign of illness, but can also be a sign of a predator as was mentioned. This depends on fish behavior. Great that you qtd the fish but you need to do it for at least 4-6 weeks even then the fish may not show symptoms, many prophylactically treat their new fish in qt to make sure they aren’t carrying any hidden disease. It is ideal to treat fish in a separate container when possible, as you are dosing medication and you don’t want to over or under dose it as this may cause more problems than it fixes.

 

[ChefTim]

Very nice. Great info needed for all. I always quarantine my new koi for several months. I buy them small and when they can hang with the big boys they go in the big pond. All my fish get treat for parasites once a year regardless of new friends. This has stopped all mystery deaths to otherwise perfect fish. Good rule of fish, PH and Ammonia. If they are good then the rest should follow. I test for nitrates and nitrites, Hardness does no good, water is way hard here. Happy fish makes this a lot more fun...my fish know me...or maybe its the food....lol..Good Luck all.

 

[Lisak1]

When you use any medication or treatments they all recommend water changes with the treatment. Algae at high levels will kill fish.

We just treated our pond for parasites in early July with PraziPro. I could post the full directions here from the packaging, but long story short - there's no recommendation for a water change after treatment. In fact, it says you can re-treat after 3-5 days if necessary. If re-treatment is a possibility, that would tell me that the medication is no longer in the water. I'm definitely not a fish expert or fish disease expert - that's just the logical conclusion to me. People will quote "solution by dilution" - but dilution to what degree? If removing the mediation is the goal, then logic tells me you would need to empty the pond.

And saying "algae at high levels will kill fish" is extremely vague. Kill fish in what way? I mean, "water at high levels" will kill humans, but that doesn't mean water is toxic. I would imagine that a pond that was choked with algae could kill fish by preventing them from getting any oxygen, but that would have to be a LOT of algae. And a water change will do nothing to reduce algae.

Again - I don't care one bit if people want to do water changes. Monthly, weekly, daily - whatever. Have at it. I just know that information - right or wrong - that gets repeated often enough will eventually become "fact". Someone reads it here with no counterpoint to that "information" and they walk away with a "fact" that they then share with other people because they "read it somewhere". I appreciate learning and hearing multiple viewpoints - when they exist - so I can make my own decision based on applied reasoning.

 

[ChefTim]

How long do you test a theory before it is a fact? I have been raising fish for 39 years and have followed this rule of husbandry all of that time. The algae come from my salt water tanks with to much light. And yes it killed the fish. Went on vacation and that did not work. Big light to much. Go with what works. When I have the place for 4000 gallons my view could change. You are not thinks small like most of these people. Small is not to compare to yours. Mother nature is at work when it has the place.

 

[ChefTim]

https://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=28

 

[Lisak1]

I won't challenge your aquarium knowledge, as mine is limited to the old carnival goldfish in a bowl. But I will say it again - ponds are not aquariums.

@Anne Duncan - any change with your fish? Didn't mean to get this thread off your topic!

 

[Anne Duncan]

All the fish died. It was a awful thing to watch. It was definitely a parasite. I guess the new fish brought it in. I appreciate your help. We have drained pond and will let it sit empty for awhile then fill it and let it sit for 72 hours before we think of new fish. Should we get some now or wait until next spring. I WILL NEVER BUY A FISH FROM A PET STORE AGAIN !!!

 

[Anne Duncan]

I would agree totally with that - a reduction in fish load makes sense.

Out of curiosity, why would an algae bloom make a pond toxic? And how would a water change help with parasites?

 

[Lisak1]

All the fish died.

Oh, no... I'm so sorry! We had a similar experience this spring, so I know exactly how you feel. What zone are you in? If you have six weeks before freezing weather is threatening, I would add the fish now.