Foamy pond--quick fix???

[Meyer Jordan]

@Meyer Jordan That *may* be the case but with this poster do we know if there are any live plants in the pond? I don't see any in the photos posted?

Also we don't know the size of the pond and the stocking level which would make a difference in water quality. Would it not?

I do believe most people who said they get foam in their ponds states it was due to decaying leaves, etc. The original posted did mention that there was a dead Koi in the pond and wasn't exactly sure how long it was there. Would or could that not affect water quality?

True, no plants are visible in the photo, but with the exception of one, maybe two, fish neither is a high stocking level.

Foam is a result of an elevated DOC (dissolved organic compounds or, more correctly, dissolved organic Carbon) level. DOC is comprised of animal and plant proteins that have been reduced to their smallest size. DOC is a part of all aquatic systems and serves a valuable purpose as a food (Carbon) source for many micro-organisms, bacterial and algal. Some of these organic compounds will combine to form molecules that are not readily identified and are unusable as a food source. In great enough number these form the basis for the appearance of Foam. This Foam, when it does occur, is usually observed in the morning hours and dissipates during the course of the day due to the effects of solar UV radiation.
As to the occurrence of the foam in Teemkay's pond, the death of a fish seems to be the trigger event for the Foam formation, or more exactly the rapid release of the slime coat into the water column.
Yes, this would affect water quality, Temporarily. The slime coat is continuously being sloughed off and replaced on a living fish and this sloughed off mucous becomes part of the total DOC. If a pond is overstocked, this continuous sloughing may create a problematic level of DOC, depending on several factors: Flow rate, filtration levels, SSA, flora and fauna diversity et. al. In the case under discussion, we are dealing with a one-time limited event which, as has been stated, Nature provides the solution.
Let's not forget that an eco-system, aquatic or terrestrial, is dynamic and not static. It is ever changing. Water quality will change from hour to hour. Ph rises during the day. Oxygen levels increase during the day. Ammonia levels will rise after fish feed. Temperature is ever changing. Nothing is static, nor should it be. As stated before, Nature provides the required checks and balances to keep an eco-system stable. Rarely, is Man's assistance required.

 

[Lisak1]

I have sometimes observed that folks who came to ponding via aquariums are convinced water changes are a must. My husband took a long time to let go of that idea himself, having been an aquarium enthusiast in his teens. My approach has always been more "let nature take it's course". Now granted, my pond is not REALLY natural since I built it and it's lined with rubber. But we do everything we can to re-create that natural pond system. An experienced pond builder we know told us that it takes 3 years for your pond water to "mature" - just leave it alone and it will eventually find it's own balance.

But as @Meyer Jordan said - that's true of an ecosystem pond with all the elements in place. A dedicated fish pond would need to be handled differently since you have only two elements in place: fish and water.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I have sometimes observed that folks who came to ponding via aquariums are convinced water changes are a must. My husband took a long time to let go of that idea himself, having been an aquarium enthusiast in his teens. My approach has always been more "let nature take it's course". Now granted, my pond is not REALLY natural since I built it and it's lined with rubber. But we do everything we can to re-create that natural pond system. An experienced pond builder we know told us that it takes 3 years for your pond water to "mature" - just leave it alone and it will eventually find it's own balance.

But as @Meyer Jordan said - that's true of an ecosystem pond with all the elements in place. A dedicated fish pond would need to be handled differently since you have only two elements in place: fish and water.

Your pond may not be truly natural, but if one provides the environment for Nature to duplicate the majority of the natural processes you will have a stable self-sufficient healthy pond.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Thanks for your explanation Myer

I guess I can understand what you're saying if someone has a large pond. But I just can't accept not doing or even not needing water changes in a small pond. My own is only 500 gallons and I have a good amount of live plants and use filtration. I keep common goldfish, no koi. I have not had issues with green water or algae. I consider my pond balanced/matured. But I feel for the health of my fish it's necessary to do regular partial water changes.

 

[snoozer]

I guess i should call my pond a water garden with fish for the added color. It is 25x35 and I have no filter. The 3 foot wide 12 inch deep shelf holds rock which serves as a planting area, hiding spot for babies and frogs and a ton of surface area for bacteria. The header pond for the stream and waterfall has iris planted in the rocks and water hyacinth floating in the summer. My water is always clear and tests fine. I do get string algae and this year I am going to add a 9X16 bog to maybe help keep it at bay. I have found many times doing nothing is the best and mother nature takes care of things. A pond dedicated to only koi is too much like work for me.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I guess i should call my pond a water garden with fish for the added color. It is 25x35 and I have no filter. The 3 foot wide 12 inch deep shelf holds rock which serves as a planting area, hiding spot for babies and frogs and a ton of surface area for bacteria. The header pond for the stream and waterfall has iris planted in the rocks and water hyacinth floating in the summer. My water is always clear and tests fine. I do get string algae and this year I am going to add a 9X16 bog to maybe help keep it at bay. I have found many times doing nothing is the best and mother nature takes care of things. A pond dedicated to only koi is too much like work for me.

It is interesting that you posted right after Maria. It presents the perfect opportunity to look at the difference between a small pond like Maria's and a large pond like yours. You state that you have no filter. Au contraire! Because of the size of your pond your have ample submerged surface area that the pond becomes its own Bio-filter and If your stream is any size at all, you have an additional filter that aerates. In a small pond like Maria's supplemental bio-filtration is a necessity because of the small amount of submerged surface area and, because budget constraints and/or space limitation likely influenced the choice of smaller size, a stream of any size is not a workable addition.
The other maybe not so obvious difference because of size is the level of flora and fauna diversity which greatly influences the stability of any pond.
And, of great importance, is (Maria alluded to this) how the size of the pond will impact how an incident such as a dead fish will influence water quality. In a pond your size, you might not ever know if a fish died because its decomposition in the pond would have negligible effect on water quality while in a pond the size of Maria's such an event could prove to be catastrophic.
Please don't read me wrong. Small ponds are fine, but because of their limited size they are inherently prone to biochemical instability and require dedicated monitoring. A pond of your size demands no more than what has been referred to by many in the pond community as 'Benign neglect'.

 

[CometKeith]

Meyer, obviously you have given the subject a lot of thought how ponds will naturally sustain themselves without intervention and I totally agree that most people do way too much and ponds typically are better left on their own, but wouldn't you agree that most people here on gpf have ponds that are way overstocked versus what would be found in nature? I feel my water quality is generally very good having about 30-40 small fish in a 700 gallon pond (70 inches of fish) but I must do frequent water changes in the spring to maintain the water quality otherwise ammonia and nitrites will get too high before the pond has a chance to cycle. By the way 95% of my fish were born in the pond and I haven't added any new ones in about 5 years.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyer, obviously you have given the subject a lot of thought how ponds will naturally sustain themselves without intervention and I totally agree that most people do way too much and ponds typically are better left on their own, but wouldn't you agree that most people here on gpf have ponds that are way overstocked versus what would be found in nature? I feel my water quality is generally very good having about 30-40 small fish in a 700 gallon pond (70 inches of fish) but I must do frequent water changes in the spring to maintain the water quality otherwise ammonia and nitrites will get too high before the pond has a chance to cycle. By the way 95% of my fish were born in the pond and I haven't added any new ones in about 5 years.

Yes, a lot of thought but even more research.
If you only had ONE fish in your 700 gallon pond that would be a higher stocking density than found in nature.
Let me play Devil's Advocate. What do you consider over-stocking? Please tell me why you believe this. Do not quote the Inch/gallon rule as it is flawed.

 

[sissy]

test kits are at most pet stores and you need a liquid one .Walmart sell individual test kits for each thing but more money .You always have to remember giving advice it all depends on the area you live .Water temps and air temps are different .You could just buy some quilt batting to catch the foam if you get a test kit and all tests are OK .A crate with your quilt batting in it and your water flowing into the crate will catch it .Most times I don't worry about foam unless it smells bad or is not white .

 

[bettasngoldfish]

I will give your question a shot Meyer.

I consider it overstocked when fish start to die or they are getting sick from parasitic or bacterial infections. I would guess due to poor water quality which will first cause stress and then it goes downhill from there.

What are your thoughts on the inch per gallon theory?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What are your thoughts on the inch per gallon theory?

Hint: 100 inches of fish. What has more mass: 50 two inch fish or 10 ten inch fish.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Hint: 100 inches of fish. What has more mass: 50 two inch fish or 10 ten inch fish.

Well I would consider the larger fish to have more mass then the smaller fish. I know with my guppies I can have lot's of fish in the tank without trouble. I can't do that with my big deep bodied fancy goldfish. And believe me over the years I tried to keep goldfish in smaller amounts of water. They did okay for a while but in the end I always had problems. They need a lot more room than the smaller tropical fish.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Well I would consider the larger fish to have more mass then the smaller fish. I know with my guppies I can have lot's of fish in the tank without trouble. I can't do that with my big deep bodied fancy goldfish. And believe me over the years I tried to keep goldfish in smaller amounts of water. They did okay for a while but in the end I always had problems. They need a lot more room than the smaller tropical fish.

More fish mass equals more waste, more Ammonia, more Oxygen demand etc. Use of the inches/gallon rule can be an invitation to disaster especially for a novice pondkeeper.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Yes, I agree and it also doesn't help that when people buy new fish many times they are very young and small. The person buying them has no idea how BIG the fish is going to be once full grown (assuming the fish lives that long) I think that's partly why so many common goldfish end up in fish bowls

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Yes, I agree and it also doesn't help that when people buy new fish many times they are very young and small. The person buying them has no idea how BIG the fish is going to be once full grown (assuming the fish lives that long) I think that's partly why so many common goldfish end up in fish bowls

And as it grows, more mass (and the accompanying impact on water quality) is added to the pond which still has the same unchanged flow rate and filtration.