Floating skimmer for my small pond

[Meyer Jordan]

Quickly want to mention...

Trash baskets are entirely unnecessary as well if you are using a Zakki Sieve Pre-Filter (http://www.deepwaterkoi.com/Zakki-Sieve-The-Direct-Suction-Pre-Filter-Zakki-Sieve.htm).... just had to throw this out there... I almost forgot about this since the Zakki Sieve I have has been repurposed for a small home trout aquaponic system (will post this soon).

A little pricey!

 

[crsublette]

A little pricey!

Quality costs money. Cheaper than the better quality RDFs I came across at the time. Definitely was a toy when I bought it for my small pond...LOL!!... now it has gone to be better utilized on another project..

Your jaw would drop if I told you about my new submersible pump I am using for this little pond and how often I turnover the pond water per hour... a long stream, waterfall, fountain, a couple wooden barrel trickle filters, jets in the pond, diy'd bottom drain, and now these floating skimmers... I got a lot going on... goldfish loving it... then again... they're goldfish so doesn't take much to make them happy.


Now that I think of it even more... Mr. Penn did create a No-Clog Leaf Basket Protype (http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?112362) ... except... DIY one of these out of a 2~5 gallon bucket... use one of these instead of baskets inside the skimmers... there we go..

 

[peter hillman]

Forgot to mention... I also have some "rock tape" (is what I call it).. which is just basically black pvc wrapping tape.. I will adhere some crushed gravel and decomposed granite to it and finish it with a clear sealer to make sure nothing comes loose... I will post pictures of this once I get around to it.... Going to use this to try to camouflage the skimmers pipe work.

I was going to suggest painting the PVC a 'watery' color. But like your idea better.

 

[Mmathis]

@crsublette Charles, that's very impressive, but I don't understand any of it..... I still have to watch the videos, but what caught my attention was the fact that this thread was referencing a floating skimmer. I don't have a "real" [what you are calling in-wall] skimmer either, but do have an Oase Swim Skim [I think that's the name -- it's the floating one and not the one anchored to the bottom.] It does an OK job, better than not having one at all, but is not as effective as a real one. [But it does have air jets so adds to the aeration of the pond.] I'll be following this for your end results!

 

[crsublette]

I don't have a "real" [what you are calling in-wall] skimmer either, but do have an Oase Swim Skim [I think that's the name -- it's the floating one and not the one anchored to the bottom.] It does an OK job, better than not having one at all, but is not as effective as a real one. [But it does have air jets so adds to the aeration of the pond.] I'll be following this for your end results!

Before I started this project, I was researching for inspiration or even for a product to buy (since I don't like DIY'n too much)... I came across many, many versions of no niche skimmers ranging from truly free floating, such as the Oase Swim Skim, to the anchored floating ones.... I'm a bit of a obsessive compulsive fella and a skimmer that doesn't stay in one spot bugs me for some reason... They definitely appear to serve a purpose... I hope it continues well for ya...

I think the Oase Swim Skim would do a better job if it was sucking more water (bigger pump)... but this means a bigger pump, more weight, bigger floaters... The Oase SwimSkim advertises to give 580gph... hence, the water draw down inside the skimmer is not great... I watched a youtube video of the Oase SwimSkim.... i noticed the suction to pull trash to skimmer is not great either.

I am positive my little 2 inch skimmer is sucking in at least 1,000gph... when a leaf gets within about 10 inches of it, that sucker makes a bee line to the skimmer... bad side effect of this... this suction causes the leaves to "matt" the inside of the basket and thus does not allow the basket to get as full as it should... working on some ideas to fix this "matting" issue... gotta be careful or I will reduce the trash baskets load capacity.


Awesome aspect about the Oase Swim Skim are its floating mechanisms... these would truly allow the skimmer to continue to work without any significant, wavy, surface water turbalence... This is what I noticed my little pipe insulation floating strips do not contend well with...

...when I place my little skimmer too close to a fountain or water fall... the surface water turbalence quick overcomes the pipe insulation floats thus causing the skimmers vaccum to collapse resulting in the skim mechanism to slide down the pipe... i'll have to post a picture to better describe this... too dark and late right now to do it... will do it sometime tomorrow when I am available...

 

[Mmathis]

@crsublette Oase makes a floating skimmer that is a size up from the Swim Skim, more powerful pump, etc., but it's only sold in places that are NOT the US..... I sent them an email once to see if the larger version would ever be sold here. "No." Oh, well. I have made an adaptation that is working for what I wanted it for, but is sacrificing in buoyancy. I have a few fish [GF] that have learned how to flip into and out of the skimmer -- they know there is food [algae] inside. I've watched the silly critters, and know that they do get in there on purpose! So far, they've always gotten back out, but on occassion the skimmer will "pop up" usually when larger debris gets trapped. My fear was that a GF was going to be inside when it "popped up" which meant the fish would be trapped and would die if I didn't find it in time. I used some plastic mesh and some zip-ties [very red-neck looking, too] and made a sort of sleeve that fits over 2 of the floats and forms something llike a cage on the outside of the skimmer where the weir is. There is plenty of room so the operation of the weir door isn't compromised, but it keeps the fish out. The holes in the mesh are large enough to catch most surface junk, but it also keeps out the larger debris like leaves [which it isn't good with anyway, so no loss there]. But it's just heavy enough that I can tell a difference in performance. One day I'll modify it to make it lighter........

And yes, would love to see pictures, plus I'll watch those videos when I'm not about to fall asleep.......

 

[Meyer Jordan]

All quite interesting and creative, but, to me, the purpose of having a skimmer is to mechanically filter all floating debris regardless of size. Perimeter skimmers can be adapted to any size or type of pond.

 

[Mmathis]

All quite interesting and creative, but, to me, the purpose of having a skimmer is to mechanically filter all floating debris regardless of size. Perimeter skimmers can be adapted to any size or type of pond.

I agree, but in my case it was a matter of keeping the fish safe.

 

[crsublette]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/SCAN0014.jpg

Quick attempt to explain my observations after dealing with various sized pipe, reducers, etc...

Inside pipe above is the source of vacuum.. outside pipe is what floats up and down causing the skimming, allowing water to enter the inside pipe... "overlap" is where the two pipes intersect..

------------------------------
Problem: "Wobbling" significantly increases as the gap increases, in the "overlap" section, between the outside and inside pipe. Increased "wobbling" caused turbulence... this turbulence caused "suction" to collapse resulting in the skim mechanism (the outside pipe) to slide down the pipe... grr, forgot to take a picture of this to better show this, but the second youtube video (in my first post) shows this happening at 0:54... Also, "wobbling" significantly increases as the "overlap" becomes quite small. Floating mechanism (such as the pipe insulation in my case) was trying to stabilize the "wobbling" to a point.

Solution: Do not allow this gap, in the "overlap", to be too large. Smaller the better... I experimented with various sized pipes and found that a gap of 1/8 inch or smaller is best...

You can see a small "wobbling" action in the first youtube video in my first post, except (in this case) not enough to cause problems.

---------------------------------
Problem: Two opposing forces that interferes with the floating mechanism (i.e., pipe insulation in my case).

1) Suction... that is the water falling over the rim of the outside pipe creates a gravity to push the outside pipe down...

2) Lift... as the pump sucks in water through the inside pipe, this pulls in water from the "gap" (as talked about in the "wobbling" problem)... and this causes a "lift"... to pull the outside pipe up...

So... difference between "suction" and "lift" will dictate how much of the floating mechanism (i.e., pipe insulation) is needed to keep the outside pipe at the proper elevation to conduct effective skimming action.

Solution: Keeping the "overlap section's" "gap" as small as possible will significantly reduce the "lift" potential thus mostly removing this variable when determining how much floating mechanism (i.e. pipe insulation) needed to keep the outside pipe at proper elevation for effective skimming action.

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As far as I understand it, this is generally what is happening... so to allow my little skimmer to function...


Since there is no half inch sizes of pvc in the 3 inch and higher range... then tougher to adapt the above approach when using my 3 inch basket...

So... for my 3 inch basket... I will have to take a different approach... such as... reversing the roles by having the inside pipe to be the outside pipe and outside pipe to be the inside pipe... I think this will remove any "lift" potential, leaving me only "suction" to contend with when determine how much floating mechanism I need...will show some pictures explaining this later on if it works... first, I am going to try this to make sure it works

 

[crsublette]

So... for my 3 inch basket... I will have to take a different approach... such as... reversing the roles by having the inside pipe to be the outside pipe and outside pipe to be the inside pipe... I think this will remove any "lift" potential, leaving me only "suction" to contend with when determine how much floating mechanism I need...will show some pictures explaining this later on if it works... first, I am going to try this to make sure it works

Here we go...

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/NCM_0107.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/NCM_0105.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/NCM_0115.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/NCM_0116.jpg

 

[crsublette]

And the schematic for the skimmer above...

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/SkybeeX/SCAN0015.jpg

 

[crsublette]

Turns out... by placing the "floating pipe" on the inside... this almost removes all "lift" issues (as described in a previous post)... This allowed finding the correct buoyancy to obtain proper skimming incredibly easy. I just put a single float strip around the 3 inch pvc and that was it...

To resolve the "gap" issue between the 4 inch and 3 inch pipe, I had to use some pipe insulation foam on the inside... This gave me under the "1/8 inch gap" limit I was hoping for.

I extended the size of the trash baskets by connecting a 2 and 3 inch basket together... This actually held much more leaves than I thought and I also figured out how to stop the "leaf matting" issue inside the baskets (which reduced suction)...

Only downside of this bigger skimmer... too big for my liking... Think I am just going to do the 2.5 inch one that I initially shared, except with the bigger, improved basket and rebuild it much like the one above, except half inch smaller..

fyi... here soon... I will use a leaf net over this small pond, which gets many of the medium size or larger leafs, but I have many small leaf trees here and these small leaves fall right through the net.

 

[crsublette]

Now.... I am just going to rebuild the 2.5 inch one with the improvements from above...

...let it run for a while... see how often I have to dump the baskets... might tweak it some more... clean it up a bit...

...then I will do a better explanation on how exactly I constructed this (step by step) in case anyone wants to try to replicate this or adapt this concept to go bigger....


...so... here in a month or so I will be back for another update...

And that's that... for now...

 

[addy1]

Nice detailed exploration invention post!