Fish food

[gardengirl]

I received a sample of plecocaine in the mail today. Does anyone know if koi can eat it?

 

[Waterbug]

Sure. Why not?

Fish food is normally guaranteed to have certain levels of fat, protein, etc. The actual ingredients are not guaranteed. I'd say the biggest choice is what ratio of protein and fat you want, and then whether any micro nutrients for color enhancement is desired. But be aware the color enhancement things generally has to be in conjunction with other things like age of fish, water temp, etc. And whether color enhancement actually does anything can be questioned.

The amount of fat content depends on whether an owner cares or not and budget. The healthier the food the higher the cost, cost increases faster than quality.

 

[gardengirl]

Sure. Why not?

Fish food is normally guaranteed to have certain levels of fat, protein, etc. The actual ingredients are not guaranteed. I'd say the biggest choice is what ratio of protein and fat you want, and then whether any micro nutrients for color enhancement is desired. But be aware the color enhancement things generally has to be in conjunction with other things like age of fish, water temp, etc. And whether color enhancement actually does anything can be questioned.

The amount of fat content depends on whether an owner cares or not and budget. The healthier the food the higher the cost, cost increases faster than quality.

This is what was posted online
CRUDE PROTEIN 50%
CRUDE FAT 17%
CRUDE FIBER 3%
CALCIUM 1.55%
PHOSPHORUS (P) (MIN) 1.2500%
SODIUM (NA) (MIN) .0500%
SODIUM (NA) (MAX) .5000%
INGREDIENTS
FISH MEAL, WHEAT FLOUR, SPRAY DRIED ANIMAL BLOOD CELLS, FISH OIL, FISH OIL
(LS), BREWERS DRIED YEAST, BETAINE, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, LECITHIN,
CHOLINE CHLORIDE, L-ASCORBYL-2-POLYPHOSPHATE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE,
DL-METHIONINE, MENADIONE SODIUM BISULFITE COMPLEX, THIAMINE MONONITRATE,
BIOTIN, FOLIC ACID, CHOLECALCIFEROL, RIBOFLAVIN, DL-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE,
VITAMIN A ACETATE, ETHOXYQUIN (A PRESERVATIVE), ZINC OXIDE, VITAMIN B-12
SUPPLEMENT, MANGANOUS OXIDE, FERROUS CARBONATE, COPPER SULFATE, ZINC SULFATE,
CALCIUM IODATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, COBALT CARBONATE.

RUMINANT MEAT AND BONE MEAL FREE

 

[fishin4cars]

All the reviews on it say it can be fed to all fish, If it's a sample I would try it at one feeding then their regular food at another and watch how they respond. From all the reviews I saw on it and the discussions I would love to try some myself for my aquarium fish, They like a slow sinking food and the large size that have really caught my eye. How did you get a sample to try?

 

[Waterbug]

You see the ingredients like "FISH MEAL" could be any kind of fish, whatever they happen to get. But it's all good imo. Same with DRIED ANIMAL BLOOD CELLS and FISH OIL, source is unknown and probably varies. I don't even know what that FISH OIL (LS) is. They say they don't use RUMINANT meat which is good, but could use chicken, pork, dog, cat, etc., but there's no mention of any meat other than fish meal, so probably no chicken, pork, dog, cat, etc.

50% protein is very high. If you're really into Koi that would probably be too high for most of the time. Keepers into the food thing will change the kind of food several times a year, by age, water temp, show or breeding conditioning.

I assume the DRIED ANIMAL BLOOD CELLS would be cow blood since they only said MEAT AND BONE MEAL FREE. Not as easy for Koi to digest so you could get more waste. Not a huge deal if you're not feeding a lot. Feeding 12 times a day it can be a big deal.

If your Koi are pets and you only feed once or twice a day I don't think it's a big deal. But really it's purely what you want, how far you want to go. The fish will certainly eat it. They might get a big belly and maybe only live 33 years instead of 35, but for most people that's no big deal.

 

[Dave 54]

Waterbug, on 22 Aug 2013 - 08:32, said:
You see the ingredients like "FISH MEAL" could be any kind of fish, whatever they happen to get. But it's all good imo. Same with DRIED ANIMAL BLOOD CELLS and FISH OIL, source is unknown and probably varies. I don't even know what that FISH OIL (LS) is. They say they don't use RUMINANT meat which is good, but could use chicken, pork, dog, cat, etc., but there's no mention of any meat other than fish meal, so probably no chicken, pork, dog, cat, etc.

50% protein is very high. If you're really into Koi that would probably be too high for most of the time. Keepers into the food thing will change the kind of food several times a year, by age, water temp, show or breeding conditioning.

I assume the DRIED ANIMAL BLOOD CELLS would be cow blood since they only said MEAT AND BONE MEAL FREE. Not as easy for Koi to digest so you could get more waste. Not a huge deal if you're not feeding a lot. Feeding 12 times a day it can be a big deal.

If your Koi are pets and you only feed once or twice a day I don't think it's a big deal. But really it's purely what you want, how far you want to go. The fish will certainly eat it. They might get a big belly and maybe only live 33 years instead of 35, but for most people that's no big deal.

I have to agree totally with waterbug on this one he is indeed correct in what he is saying.
We go in for differing foos at different times of the year.
NTLabs is a perfect example of this , wheatgerm and Garlic from the start and finish of the year Health then Beauty taking us into the showing Months of July, August reverting back to wheatgerm and Garlic at the end of the season, each with differing additives prebiotics etc.
Hikari is another food producer that does the same.
A koi may see up to its full lifespan of 80years on these foods
Cheaper foods are great as watherbug says for giving your koi a big belly but you have to ask did it really do them any good ?
Why because if you had one die and you opened that fish up for autopy you'd find that the huge layer of fat which envelopes your koi's organs and which is created by these foods over a long period of time.This fat layer is responsable for that swelling.
As well as that it had done your koi no good.
Any alternative foods must be given as treats (which we listed in another thread),however my pet hate is cherios.....
Please dont feed cherios as some people do "thinking that its a good healthy option", as it does your fish the square route of nothing apart from filling the belly its for humans not for fish of any species....

rgrds

Dave

 

[Anthony]

I would love to try some myself for my aquarium fish.

This is a subject I know a bit about and have recently been consulting with HBH pet products on a new line of foods specifically for African cichlids.
As indicated above all fish foods are not created equally, some use more quality fish healthy ingredients and some bulk up on useless if not harmful fillers.
The most important thing to remember is each species of fish has specific dietary needs that need to be met if you want that fish to live the longest and healthiest life possible.
A food with a 50% protein content would bloat up and kill a fish such as a Tanganyikan Tropheus in short order, but would be ideal for some of the meat loving plecos.

 

[Dave 54]

Bellow are photos of an autopsy I did on a beautiful cream Ogon which belonged to my friend Matt another koi keeper here in Plymouth in the photo's you can clearly see the type of fat build up I mentioned in my previous post .
Ity was found floating belly up after going through QT and had been in his pond for two months it turned out that its previous owner was feeding it the wrong food, in that it was eating trout food and lots of it/
She admitted that her sadly dead husband was the fish keeper of the family and in reality she never took an interest in fish keeping .
It's not a pretty sight





but give you a graphic idea all the same................................
We also found the reson for the koi's death is that the fat had impacted on the organs so much that the swimbladder had burst you can also plainly see where it had enveloped the the ovaries and intetinal tract

rgrds

Dave

 

[Waterbug]

I'd backup the truck a little here. We're talking CRUDE PROTEIN 50%, key word is CRUDE. This is very typical of fish food. Crude protein may contain true protein or not. A cow can digest most crude proteins while a fish cannot digest any. It is very unlikely imo that the manufacturer of this food spends a lot of money on good protein sources and then didn't highlight that fact so they could charge more. So 50% is called very high protein, but that doesn't mean it actually is. No way to tell since the manufacturer isn't saying.

Stuff like hair and feathers have very high crude protein content. That doesn't mean fish will get fat eating it. More likely they'd starve.

My guess is the true protein percentage is probably in the 20-30% range because they do list FISH MEAL first. Same deal with the fat content. The protein and fats that fish cannot digest passes thru the fish and increases the waste load and provides food for creatures most people don't want in their pond. Feeding 12 times a day = problem, feeding 1 time a day = not so big a problem.

Like most mass market pond products I think manufacturers have been forced into this game by customers. If one product says 30% crude protein and another says 50% for the same price most people are going to think 50 is more than 30, and protein is a good thing, and I don't know what crude means, so I'll buy the 50% stuff. To keep fish alive and cost down they use protein fillers to get the number up but keep actual digestible protein lower. It's unfortunate, but that's the world we live in.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

. To keep fish alive and cost down they use protein fillers to get the number up but keep actual digestible protein lower. It's unfortunate, but that's the world we live in.

That's exactly what they did to baby formula in China. If they do it to baby formula, you can bet they'd do it to fish food.
Except they didn't use fillers, they used melamine to get appear as there was a higher protein count.

 

[addy1]

I feed nothing made in china to my pup, and do my best to make sure we eat nothing from china. Sometimes you really have to read the fine print to find out where the junk is made.

 

[gardengirl]

Well I have to say I ordered some of the hornwort from the seller that addy recommended. He said he had some left. When I received my small box it had samples of fish food - Plecocaine,sizes 1,2,4,5, algae wafers, and krill meal. They are just sample packets but I wasn't sure about feeding them to my koi, since they didn't say for koi. I assumed they are for aquarium fish. My bag of hornwort was not as large as yours addy, but it will work fine in my big pond and baby pond. I also had a packet of tootsie rolls and mints and ink pens. I think someone was feeling bad about sending a smaller pkg of hornwort. Im ok with it.

 

[Waterbug]

Except they didn't use fillers, they used melamine to get appear as there was a higher protein count.

I'd call melamine a filler, but don't know if that's the proper term. Used to boost crude protein without adding useable protein. Just taking up space.

Sometimes you really have to read the fine print to find out where the junk is made.

There's been a pretty big push by one party to scale back funding for FDA and other other food safety measures. Their logic is that food is pretty safe now so it isn't needed any more. I think it might have more to do with increasing profit margins for businesses. For sure businesses aren't lobbing to keep food safety measures.

So someday there might not be any fine print to read, just like in China. Better for business though.

Plecocaine,sizes 1,2,4,5, algae wafers, and krill meal. They are just sample packets but I wasn't sure about feeding them to my koi, since they didn't say for koi.

I would call Plecocaine a kind of basic all a round food. Some kinds of fish need a more specialized diet, but Koi would eat all those foods. Just needs to be able to fit into their mouth.

The quality of food is where it gets more complicated, and long term health, better immune system. But most Water Gardeners don't really go too far down that path.

 

[gardengirl]

Well the koi liked the food. I must say they devoured the algae wafers first. Must be their " ice cream ".

 

[capewind]

I dont know if it applies to fish, in the same manner it does people and furry folks, but I was taught that protein percentage levels mean nothing. So SAYING 50% protein may or may not mean a thing. It boils down to USABLE protein, and kcals ...