First attempt at a large pond

[Lisak1]

I CAN'T BE EVERYWHERE @brokensword ! Thanks for stepping up!

And yes - if you're going to build a bog (and you know you WANT TO!) make it as big as possible AND make sure your not sending solid debris through the bog. Mine gets only "clear" water - the gravel down flow bog catches all the small, medium and large organic material.

 

[brokensword]

there ya go! See? Got the first line Cheerleaders on this; now you HAVE to have a bog...seriously, really, don't even think twice.


Now, g'wan, start digging...

 

[Telion]

Thank you both of you for the suggestions. I do want the main filtration to be a bog. Mainly because of now large the pond is and how I don't want to hide a large mechanical filtration system. With a bog my goal is to make it look like a monitors wetland where a pump forces water up through about 3 to 4 inches of small gravel via a PVC T of sorts with the slits in it with a top layer of dirt that will house a wide variety of bog plants (preaching to the choir I am sure).

I need to wait till spring to wrap my head around the mechanical filtration. The skimmer will play a mechanical filter role for sure. But beyond that I debate running some type of barrel style filter with various types of media. I will also run a UV filter but that is more so to help keep unwanted algae at bay. Though it will be in a well shaded area which should also help. I have also started reading the bog thread on here to further my knowledge

 

[Lisak1]

There are differing opinions on using a UV - some people claim that the dead algae it creates adds to the organic load in the water, leading to - you guessed it - more algae growth. And it only kills floating algae. Just food for thought! Your best bet for algae control is a balanced pond - plants+fish+water=harmony!

 

[brokensword]

...don't forget to add water movement to the balanced list...

 

[Telion]

There are differing opinions on using a UV - some people claim that the dead algae it creates adds to the organic load in the water, leading to - you guessed it - more algae growth. And it only kills floating algae. Just food for thought! Your best bet for algae control is a balanced pond - plants+fish+water=harmony!

Very much agree to this. I bought it before realizing I wanted more natural harmonized filtration. But now that o have it I will see what it does. Thank you for the advice though because now I know contrary to what I would have done in terms of if I get undesired algae to remove it and see if it improves.

 

[Telion]

...don't forget to add water movement to the balanced list...

Lol so glad you said that. The waterfall should create a bit of movement as should the circulation through the bog. In anticipation of all this I have become pump happy.

I have purchased 4 3200 gph submersible utility pumps and a 5600 gph sump pump. With the sump pimp I am aware of the cautions but think it will be fine intermittently to power the falls and could not pass up the deal it was a 200.00 pump on sale for 50.00. Honestly I might buy another tomorrow.

 

[brokensword]

are you planning on using the sump pump just for the falls, and using it intermittently? I'd keep the falls always on (wfall is also for aeration, which helps stop free floating algae too) during the warm seasons and find a way to tee off one of your (4?) submersibles. I know you got the sump pump cheap but they aren't meant to be run continuously, unlike a dedicated pond pump.

Jus' sayin'...

 

[addy1]

Mine gets only "clear" water -

Mine gets water from a foot off the bottom, almost 8 years now and no clogging.

addy has had good luck so far with only a bog, but hers is like the size of Montana, so go that route if you are only thinking bog!

nah size of texas
My bog is around 1/4-1/3 the size of the pond. It is 27ft x 4 ft. The pond is 27ft x 15ish feet.

With a bog my goal is to make it look like a monitors wetland where a pump forces water up through about 3 to 4 inches of small gravel

3-4 inches of gravel is pretty shallow. imho, The plants will fill that gravel with roots. I would stick with a layer more like 12-18 inches.
Mine is 2.5 feet deep, mainly because the bog digger, me, dug it that deep. Sort of went crazy with the tractor. And less dirt needed to make the down slope dirt berm I needed to make a flat spot in our yard.

There are differing opinions on using a UV

I don't use a uv, no need, never have green water issues.



And beautiful view you have there! Love it

 

[Telion]

are you planning on using the sump pump just for the falls, and using it intermittently? I'd keep the falls always on (wfall is also for aeration, which helps stop free floating algae too) during the warm seasons and find a way to tee off one of your (4?) submersibles. I know you got the sump pump cheap but they aren't meant to be run continuously, unlike a dedicated pond pump.

Jus' sayin'...

Correct it will be used intermittently. But you got me thinking and I could run one of the pumps T'd into the sump pump line as to create continuous flow. It also made me think because the top of the falls is so high I could stage it across a couple of pumps two tied together to push the water to the top of the falls (the sump pumps) and one submersible that only goes half way up that I can run continuously. I think this is the direction I will go. Then I will use one submersible pump to power the skimmer and another to run a few jets around the pond and one for the bottom drain.

Mine gets water from a foot off the bottom, almost 8 years now and no clogging.

nah size of texas
My bog is around 1/4-1/3 the size of the pond. It is 27ft x 4 ft. The pond is 27ft x 15ish feet.


3-4 inches of gravel is pretty shallow. imho, The plants will fill that gravel with roots. I would stick with a layer more like 12-18 inches.
Mine is 2.5 feet deep, mainly because the bog digger, me, dug it that deep. Sort of went crazy with the tractor. And less dirt needed to make the down slope dirt berm I needed to make a flat spot in our yard.

I don't use a uv, no need, never have green water issues.



And beautiful view you have there! Love it

I will take your advice and run at least a foot deep on the gravel for the bog. And I think I will place it in the area of the pink plant bucket in the last pic.

A little hard to put this in perspective you can't see the depth in this pic but you can see the pergola and the view.

This is a pic from the top of where the falls will be tomorrow I will measure the actual distance from the top to the pond, if I had to guess I would say its about 20 feet.

This shot gives the best perspective of the height of the waterfall for size reference those are 16' boards and the pergola is 10x14'

 

[brokensword]

Correct it will be used intermittently. But you got me thinking and I could run one of the pumps T'd into the sump pump line as to create continuous flow. It also made me think because the top of the falls is so high I could stage it across a couple of pumps two tied together to push the water to the top of the falls (the sump pumps) and one submersible that only goes half way up that I can run continuously. I think this is the direction I will go. Then I will use one submersible pump to power the skimmer and another to run a few jets around the pond and one for the bottom drain.

T: if you're thinking to use two pumps to increase flow, I don't think the extra pump will increase your head pressure (by piggy-backing). That is, I think you'd be better off just having one of your subs dedicated to the falls; you'll get continuous aeration, continuous movement, continuous workload for your pump. I've had more problems running pumps off and on then just keeping them going (that is, non submersibles; I know sump pumps can be submerged but that's not really their function and they are exposed more often than not.)

This would give you three others; one for your bottom drain, one for your jets, and the last for ? (not sure), unless you have some sort of basin to collect the water you intend for your wfall sump pump? How high exactly are you pushing water to the top of your wfall? I'd just get a strong enough pump with enough head pressure to do the job. This allows you to keep the wfalls system completely separate, which might come in handy during trouble checking, etc.

In my case, I have my one sub pump teed, with one line going to my wfalls (4' head, 30' run) and the other to my mech filter. My pump is rated at 13 psi, and I have approx 5-6 psi at the falls. I included valves to allow myself to control how much water goes where and would advise you do the same if you work in any tees. Sometimes, it's nice to have a quieter wfall, you know?

Actually, if you have the sub pump for your pond on one end and the wfall on the other, you could eliminate the one for the jets as you'll already have a nice circular flow.

Just spitballin', is all...


Michael

 

[Telion]

Thank you. I will welcome suggestions and feedback anytime. It will give me advice to refer to as I go the rounds with this project.

I had a smaller scale setup where I ran three subs from a skimmer based at the opposite side of the pond to create the amount of flow i desired (true, this was not in tandem) and they were plumbed to run the water back alongside the pond in 2" pipe then up the back side of the waterfall. My concern (or unknown) with running one pump for the falls is that I wont get the desired water flow I am looking for. The sump pumps are rated higher in terms of flow vs head so they may do a better job. The other, hahaha this is where I open my own can of worms around pump effeciency and cost effectiveness between a waterfall pump and a sub or or a sump pump, is cost having the waterfall on 24/7 might be a bit costly I hear of others seeing a 300.00 increase in their electricity to do that and I would much rather use it while I am out there and save the expense while I am not.

I think what I can do is have the sumps setup to run all the way to the top and just use them while I am out there and wanting the full effect of the waterfall. And run a sub to say 1/3 of the way up on a more always on basis so it can provide circulation and aeration effeciently

 

[bagsmom]

I will give a testimonial for the Helix skimmer. Well worth the price. Very efficient and I love that my fish can cruise around inside and come out safely. I wish I was your neighbor so I could come watch -- and help! I'm loving my 1 year old pond but honestly missing the creativity and work of building it! Have fun!!!!!

 

[Telion]

I will give a testimonial for the Helix skimmer. Well worth the price. Very efficient and I love that my fish can cruise around inside and come out safely. I wish I was your neighbor so I could come watch -- and help! I'm loving my 1 year old pond but honestly missing the creativity and work of building it! Have fun!!!!!

I wish you were my neighbor too I would be all for some help , yes its a ton of fun and we have done a decent job of keeping the cost down which has been key since we have a project going on in every part of the house at the same time. I guess I will need to finish it soon so I can relax next to it and recapture some of my sanity.I was able to knock out one of the largest expenses today the pond liner. 30'x30' of 45mil EPDM for 635.00 shipped with a 20% coupon on ebay. Things should really pick up speed once that arrives. We already have the liner for the waterfall but felt it would be best to do it all together at the same time and the weather is just now reaching a point where its not too cold or snowing.

 

[Telion]

Well yesterday was an interesting one. I decided to open up one of the sump pumps and on the improper was a small speck of oil. Likely it was because the wanted to be sure it wad well oiled but that little drop made me think. I started to do more research more open minded. And one person on some google thread about waterfall pumps vs sump pumps said something like "when the seal fails you are going to have oil all over the top of your pond, and it will fail." This stuck with me all night.

Then I started reading about post draws of sump pumps vs waterfall pumps and the difference of ranking a 10amp pump vs a 2-3 amp waterfall pump. Every light in my house is l.e.d for a reason I am all about getting the most for less. One guy in one thread who was sold on the sump pump explained how the cost was only 7.00 per mo. vs 38.00 or something. And then I knew what I had to do. There was no way I am going to be ablebto be satisfied about my goals of having a low maintenance low cost pond with a few power sucking oil bombs in the chain. So I will be taking them back today and I lucked out (I hope) and picked up an Anjon 12500 for about the same price that will out perform them all combined. The I hope is because I am still taking a risk it is refurbished and does not have a warranty. But the good side is if it does stop it wont oil my pond.

Another other notes worth mentioning is dumps are not epoxy sealed and may driven and true waterfall pumps are. There are a few company's out there that will sell you a utility pump as a pond pump. But you run that same risk and it really isbnot designed to run continuous if it is designed like a sump pump things to look for. Higher amperage, oil cooled. Doesn't state that it is asynchronous (spelling on thebll ast one lol).

Thank you all for putting enough doubt in my mind to dig.