Filter crash - need advice!

[Mayank]

I suspect that the sudden spike in ammonia that we're measuring is due to the sudden crash of the pea soup algae two days ago (the water got really clear in two to three days and I think all that dead algae decomposing is doing it because we have not fed the fish for three days and did 10% and then 15% water changes and the level went up. The pond store guy thinks there may be a dead critter in there but I'm not seeing anything...

 

[poconojoe]

I hope you are using a good liquid test kit and not those inaccurate test strips.

You stated your pond is 3,000 gallons. How many fish are in there, what type of fish and what sizes are they. Are you sure you fish load is not exceeding the size of the pond?
An overpopulated pond can be the cause of koi deaths and it's usually the larger ones that suffer. Unfortunately I have experienced this.
A lot of aeration is needed.

 

[mrsclem]

How did your bog do with the addition of salt?

 

[Charlottekoi]

I hope you are using a good liquid test kit and not those inaccurate test strips.

You stated your pond is 3,000 gallons. How many fish are in there, what type of fish and what sizes are they. Are you sure you fish load is not exceeding the size of the pond?
An overpopulated pond can be the cause of koi deaths and it's usually the larger ones that suffer. Unfortunately I have experienced this.
A lot of aeration is needed.

 

[Charlottekoi]

yes, using digital testing for salt & ph, liquid kits for everything else. Regarding overstocking, i've studied that extensively so i can confidently say i'm not overstocking with roughly 12 medium sized koi, ranging from 8" to 16".

 

[Charlottekoi]

How did your bog do with the addition of salt?

it seemed to do fine - but i had to remove all bog plants when i used salt and i think having plants is a big part of the bog magic.

 

[Charlottekoi]

Thank you for your prompt responses! We added 20 lbs of salt to our 1800 gallon pond on May 1. However, there have been some water changes since and I would wager that at least half of it is gone.

you should go to Amazon and buy a digital salt meter. Better to know instead of guessing

 

[Charlottekoi]

Do you have plenty of aeration and water movement?

What I don't understand is your statement that your filter "crashed". I have never heard anyone make such a statement. What exactly does that mean and how did you come to this conclusion?

Obviously your test readings are a need for concern.

It seems normal to me when my fish just hang out, whether it be on the bottom or when they line up in a sunny spot.

You say you also have a bog filter. A lot of us have them, they are very effective and if sized properly are usually the only filter that is neccessary.

what is a filter crash and why does it happen? - Seneye

seneye explains what an aquarium or pond filter crash is, how to avoid them and what to do it they happen

answers.seneye.com

 

[poconojoe]

what is a filter crash and why does it happen? - Seneye

seneye explains what an aquarium or pond filter crash is, how to avoid them and what to do it they happen

answers.seneye.com

So, from the article, a crash is the killing off of the beneficial bacteria. Got it.

OK, I'm guessing you have determined there was indeed a crash and the clues are the fact that you had a spike in your test results.

Assuming you are correct, what have you determined to be the cause of this crash?

Beneficial bacteria in your filters and bog all don't just completely die off. Something catastrophe must have happened. A chemical introduction? Did someone add anything to the pond recently? Could something have been used in the vicinity that washed into the pond?

 

[Charlottekoi]

So, from the article, a crash is the killing off of the beneficial bacteria. Got it.

OK, I'm guessing you have determined there was indeed a crash and the clues are the fact that you had a spike in your test results.

Assuming you are correct, what have you determined to be the cause of this crash?

Beneficial bacteria in your filters and bog all don't just completely die off. Something catastrophe must have happened. A chemical introduction? Did someone add anything to the pond recently? Could something have been used in the vicinity that washed into the pond?

well, i'm no chemist (i'm a private equity real estate investor) so i can't tell you exactly how it crashed. I do know that it didn't happen as a result of a chemical being introduced to the pond. I also know (but don't know how it happens) that if you overload the pond with excess food and waste that produces too much ammonia, that alone causes the biological filter to crash, although i can't tell you exactly how that happens. (perhaps we could google that?) I've also read that if you do too big of a water change, the chlorine in the new water can kill the filter bacteria too - but that wasn't the case for me, because the crash happened before a big water change. So i'm not smart enough to tell you how it happens, but i know it can happen, because i've experienced it (and read about it). gc

 

[Charlottekoi]

Oh, no it's not more than I want to know. In fact, I've more questions
So, you didn't add Seachem right? And you did almost daily changes of 25% for how long? That does not stress the fish too much? We have an ammonia problem since a couple of days.
We climbed from between 0 and 0.25 to 0.5 to possibly 1.0 today!
Did approx 25 % change but over two days and added bacteria but nothing happened. Is it safe to do a change again? I thought you had to wait for a week?
Also, we're thinking of using zeolite from the local tractor supply. Did you use that at all?
Thanks in advance!

one other reminder - while you can safely do frequent 25% water changes (daily in an emergency situation) you probably should never do 50%+ WC's because the large WC's will kill the bacteria in your bio filter. Our city water has a lot of chlorine in it and the chlorine kills the beneficial bacteria. I always add the powder that neutralizes chlorine but I can only treat it as it's going in, not before it goes in. Make sense?

 

[poconojoe]

Whenever I add (chlorinated) water, I add (liquid) Tetra Pond AquaSafe Water Conditioner directly into the stream of new water. I have a digital water metering device that screws onto the end of my hose. This way I know exactly how much conditioner to add per gallon of water.
I've never had a problem with killing off beneficial bacteria in any of my past filters over the years. I now run a bog exclusively. No other filter.

 

[Jhn]

@Charlottekoi what you experienced wasn’t a filter crash.....by over feeding you just overwhelmed your biological filter i.e. creating more waste(ammonia) than the bacteria in your pond can cope with.

Even rinsing off your filter media with chlorinated water shouldn’t cause a filter crash as every wet surface in your pond has a layer of biofilm on it part of which is beneficial bacteria. Now cleaning out your pond and power washing it and your filter media off will cause your biological filter to crash.

Not a fan of water changes in a pond for anything other than in emergencies, when something in the water needs to be diluted quickly...chemical/toxin, ammonia spike in a mature pond....but that is another topic.

 

[poconojoe]

@Charlottekoi what you experienced wasn’t a filter crash.....by over feeding you just overwhelmed your biological filter i.e. creating more waste(ammonia) than the bacteria in your pond can cope with.

Even rinsing off your filter media with chlorinated water shouldn’t cause a filter crash as every wet surface in your pond has a layer of biofilm on it part of which is beneficial bacteria. Now cleaning out your pond and power washing it and your filter media off will cause your biological filter to crash.

Not a fan of water changes in a pond for anything other than in emergencies, when something in the water needs to be diluted quickly...chemical/toxin, ammonia spike in a mature pond....but that is another topic.

Now this makes more sense.

Without some kind of serious chemical contamination, I couldn't understand how all of your beneficial bacteria could have been killed off.

 

[Mayank]

one other reminder - while you can safely do frequent 25% water changes (daily in an emergency situation) you probably should never do 50%+ WC's because the large WC's will kill the bacteria in your bio filter. Our city water has a lot of chlorine in it and the chlorine kills the beneficial bacteria. I always add the powder that neutralizes chlorine but I can only treat it as it's going in, not before it goes in. Make sense?

Yes we've only done max 15% really. But doing it daily for four days daily. Haven't fed the fish for 3 days. Added more bacteria and a few more plants! Ammonia went from below .25 to .5 to 1. And today it was back to about .5 maybe slightly more but definitely less than one. I am definitely tempted to get something more accurate and something that has a higher resolution.
The only explanation for our ammonia spike that I could find from all the research I did is that our green algae bloom that completely collapsed must have started decaying and releasing ammonia.
Yesterday we put two mesh bags of PDZ zeolite in our filter as well.
Also we always use the tap water conditioner in a big tub mix it with the water that's gonna go in and then slowly trickle the water in over a few hours. And I always used 30mL instead of 15MLI don't think adding a little more can hurt and we have a gallon jug of thestuff!