Electrical headache!!

[mgmine]

Do you have two separate GFI's coming off one line? Can you post a picture?

 

[Lisak1]

Just reading this is giving me an electrical headache of my own! Electricity scares me. I've rewired a few lamps and occasionally plug things in, but that's as far as I go. We have a good friend who is an electrician who always takes my calls - that's the extent of my electrical know how!

Hope it all works out for you @mrsclem .

 

[mrsclem]

Update- Got a new 20 amp breaker as the one we had was old and also not the correct brand for our box. (That's another story). Got 2 new water resistance GFIs- 20 amps. Got everything wired in and have power to the area but GFIs will not reset. Correct wiring/ trip indicator light is on but not able to reset. Unless anyone has any other ideas I'm going to run new 12-2 wire from box directly to pond area doing away with 6 splices that could be causing problems.

Do you have two separate GFI's coming off one line? Can you post a picture?

Yes, do have 2 GFI outlets as there was a splice put in to repair a cut and at that point we ran a 2nd line to add additional outlets. That was 5 years ago. Will get pics later, right now I don't even want to look at an outlet or wire! !

Just found this in a post back from 2011. Midwest box with the added box with 6 outlets.

 

[Acorn Ponds & Waterfalls]

What are you running for pumps? Are they all 5 years old? 5 years is good for a pump that runs nonstop. Every time I run into this problem here in Rochester NY it's because the pond pump failed. I would try replacing the pump before changing a setup that has worked for all this time. The pump manufacturer will usually recommend not using extension cords and plug the pump directly into the outlet as they can cause high arcs. On this type of pump failure, the pump will trigger the GFI but will continue to run if plugged into an outlet that is not GFI.

 

[mrsclem]

Problem is not with pump. GFIs will not reset with no load on them. None of my pumps are on extension cords. Going to try cutting down to 1 GFI and do away with the other and possibly try cutting off the one other circuit on the line.

 

[Acorn Ponds & Waterfalls]

Oh, how frustrating! Sorry I couldn't help. Let us know how you make out and good luck!

 

[mrsclem]

Possibly too many splices. also, there is a splice that runs to another GFI outlet that handles a security light in the front of our house and I know it was exposed to water in the last week. I am so confused as to what is causing this and in the mean time both of my ponds are on an extension cord that is on a circuit that has another load. I have cut everything back to the minimum load. I know I have too many splices and another outlet on this circuit that has been exposed to water. My brain is fried!! The instructions on the GFI say to switch the wires but I am absolutely positive that everything is wired the way it should be as I moved wire by wire. Going to try taking the GFI up front and shutting it down and see if that helps. I have no idea where to go from here other than redoing all wiring. Bad enough that this all started after having to replace 100 feet of cctv cable that was buried because it failed!

 

[Acorn Ponds & Waterfalls]

It is always a good idea to have the pumps on their own circuit so it doesn't cut out when something else is plugged in. Your light isn't that much of a load but I think you might be on to something if the light was exposed to water and cut out, could be the connection to the light. Stay positive and don't let this whole experience ruin your weekend ok?

 

[MitchM]

Agreed, the pond should have it's own circuit.

 

[mrsclem]

Pond is on its own circuit with exception of an outlet that runs a light at the front of the house at night. 1 100w- 27w low energy bulb but yes, the outlet was exposed to water last week. According to the instructions on the GFIs, I have my wires switched but they are the way they have been for 5 years as when I do change out GFIs, wires are moved one at a time so things don't get messed up!
Going to remove 2nd set of outlets by removing extra wires from junction box tomorrow to see if that helps but planning on completely rewiring from breaker box out to pond and keeping it 1 GFI box and getting rid of splices with exception of front light and replacing GFI there. This is getting expensive but cheaper than bringing in an electrician. BTW, have a lot of experience doing electrical, father was electrician. I'm guessing things have changed and possibly GFIs etc have gotten more sensitive in the last 10 years so basicially going to start from scratch. I have to get these ponds off an extension cord that already has a load on the breaker.

 

[MitchM]

Try removing the cfl bulb. They have an electronic ballast that can trip a gfi.

 

[mrsclem]

Ok, will try that.I have thought of every possibility that could cause this problem. At least we are now showing power at the pond location but I am at a loss as to why brand new GFIs are not functioning. There has to be some type of problem between the breaker box and the GFIs but I have no idea what it is. Have checked all junction boxes and all splices are wired tight and correct. Still thinking too many splices for a run of 200 feet. Possible loss of connectivity due to excessive splices???

 

[MitchM]

Every splice adds a possible problem.
That's what I meant before about the pond on it's own circuit. No splices.
What I would do is remove everything except the pond power supply, make sure you have power there first, then add back everything that was previously hooked up, one by one. Eventually you will find what is causing the fault. Then you can fix that.

Ideally the pond should have it's own dedicated circuit, no splices.

Also, take a piece of paper and list everything that is running on that circuit. Add up the total wattage if everything was running. That number must be below 2200 watts. 2200 watts is the maximum load that that 20 amp circuit can handle. Anything more and you run the risk of overheating the breaker, causing it to trip, or worse, if you have a faulty breaker, damaging the wire.

.

 

[MitchM]

Also, 200 feet is a very long run.
Your only choice may be to run a dedicated line for the pond anyway.
Again, it depends on how much wattage is being used.

 

[mrsclem]

that's what I thought. When this line was first run it was for one small pond and the front yard light. It was a breaker that was not in use. It's been 10 years and a lot of expansions and a lot of problems. The supply line has been cut twice and so splices. new deck 3 years age and another splice.Too many cuts thru a line.Most of the line is buried way too shallow but some is put thru conduit after being cut. Time to do the wiring right and get all the splices gone and get the pond circuit where it needs to be. The light up front may need to be kept on this circuit but the outlet needs to be protected from water better. I have learned a lot from this problem including the fact that our breaker box ( Challenger ) should have been replaced a long time ago due to problems. 2 breakers in the box were a different brand that were not compliant with box and could have caused huge problems in the event of a fire. That has been corrected. I am so stressed out from all of this and almost ready to give up ponds but I don't quit!