Don't let your pond ice completely over

[dieselplower]

I've been in the Arctic colleen so I do know what its like to be in extreme cold and we have a friend in St Johns Canada who's koi cannot live if left outside because of extreme cold.
However I can only go by what I see have read and seen for myself .
The Japanese bring their koi in during the winter months we Brits cover and or heat/both during the winter months and you do your own thing where you are and I do recall you saying your pond being heated by a sort of heater that is used with cattle.
Sleeping sickness is a fact and it does affect young koi this is why I mentioned it in the first case .
We should be picking up on the fact that PondFather's pond is a wee bit too shallow for koi they need 4.5ft -5ft , $ft bare minimum the 24" being the reason we are seeing a possible case of sleeping sickness :-

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzo....html/_/articles/sleeping-sickness-in-koi-r38

We dont heat our pond like your goodself but we had the forsight to insulate the pond and its filters against the elements , we also cover our pond durng the winter with Polycarbonate roofing sheets. which means even at -15c "our lowest temp last winter that the pond its filters where at the lowest 7c" , with a high of 9c above that of freezing
Its a case of each individual to their own , Peter Waddington the Great Koi Guru would say to us that in his eyes we are being cruel because we arent heating but in our eyes we dont need to because of the insulation.
However we did have a bit of forsight because at temperatures bellow that of -15c would see us switch on an 800watt oil storage heater sighted in the filter housing for the very purpose of keeping the air around th filter warmer than the outside airtemperature thus raising the water temperature as it passes through .
To say we dont see intense cold even as far south as where we are is a nonsence , though admittedly we dont keep it as long as in Canada we do otherwise get it .
Sleeping sickness is a fact we cant get around that can we , why would our experts report on it otherwise ?


Dave

She has actually said she uses 2 heaters when it is really cold. A 1000 watt and a 1500 watt if I recall correctly. That is a lot of power.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Koi 'Sleeping Sickness' is most assuredly a disease. It is viral and usually affects only young fish.The virus that causes this has been identified as the same virus that causes Koi edema disease. It is best treated by holding the infected fish in a 0.50% salt solution for about 7 days.
Histopathological and electron microscopy studies on sleepy disease of koi Cyprinus carpio koi in Japan.
Miyazaki, T., Isshiki, T., Katsuyuki, H.

 

[Tula]

I'm thinking our pond sizes have something to do with how they fare in cold weather. My pond is only 1700 gallons and as my koi have grown, I increasingly worry about oxygen levels.

I think some folks here have large, natural type ponds, that don't require as much winter prep. This is only my opinion, nothing scientific and I could be wrong, just an observation.

 

[Dave 54]

Sleepy Sickness and Sleeping sickness are two differing things or so I believe Meyer.
There are no reports of any infections in these fish they just keel over in the water showing no signs of life but when the water is warmed up again they spring back to life .
Sleepy sickness I believe effects the fish at a higher temperature or so I believe I read in the self same study occurs in the 15-25c range in temperature :-

http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2005/65/d065p197.pdf


Because Sleeping Sickness occurs at near freezing conditions then we have a huge descrepency between the two i'e sleepy sickness active from 15-25c
Sleeping Sickess affecting young koi at down to 0c



Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Sleepy Sickness and Sleeping sickness are two differing things or so I believe Meyer.
There are no reports of any infections in these fish they just keel over in the water showing no signs of life but when the water is warmed up again they spring back to life .
Sleepy sickness I believe effects the fish at a higher temperature or so I believe I read in the self same study

Dave

In the course of my research over the years, I have found that 'Sleepy Sickness' and 'Sleeping Sickness' in Koi is the same viral disease. It affects only koi that are less than one year old. It occurs at colder water temperatures. At higher temperatures, the disease is asymptomatic.
Do you have a link to the study that you refer to?

 

[callingcolleen1]

She has actually said she uses 2 heaters when it is really cold. A 1000 watt and a 1500 watt if I recall correctly. That is a lot of power.

I use only ONE heater ever! I have always used a 1500 watt but last year I switched to a 1250 watt to see what the difference was and when I used the smaller green 1200 watt I had more ice. No temperature difference in the water, just the amount of ice covering the pond.
And for the record I get just as cold as St. John's and I can keep koi here in the Minus 45 below and have for the past 24 years.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I would never used two big heaters cause it would really suck power and double my bill!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Only the GOLDFISH lay sideways when the temperature first has a really big drop, and then not all of them, just a few. I have talked about this on my winter thread, and it has never hurt them and by Christmas they are used to the big difference in temperature and have acclimatized to the big drop by then. NO Goldfish Has Ever Died from laying sideways either! It happens every year when I get the big change in temperature.

And for the record, it HAS NOT effected my KOI and I have Never seen my big koi lay sideways in 24 years, ONLY the Goldfish...

 

[callingcolleen1]

here is a link to my winter thread ... https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/my-pond-runs-all-winter-zone-2-3.10570/page-44#post-251078

and they said Koi could not stand Ice Cold water but mine are 24 years old and very much alive and well,
I should also note that after the long cold winter, the koi seen so much larger every spring, and I have always marveled at that, how can they grow so big in the ice cold water every winter? Larkin told me on my facebook that he knows that fish get bigger over the winter and put on fat, and he is very right about that!

 

[callingcolleen1]

To say we dont see intense cold even as far south as where we are is a nonsence , though admittedly we dont keep it as long as in Canada we do otherwise get it .
Sleeping sickness is a fact we cant get around that can we , why would our experts report on it otherwise ?

the experts said Koi do not do well in ice cold water and I have proven them wrong on that too. Unless you have actually wintered your ponds with big koi for the last 24 years, (or for a number of cold winters) which most have not, cause they all live down south but call themselves an expert... You have not seen your ground frozen down 6 feet and two feet of ice on your ponds either, big difference I would say!
My ponds are also only 3 feet deep, thanks to running water all winter, the top ponds do not get as much ice and I do not worry ever about how cold the water is, on how much ice is covering the top ponds and how thick it is.



Dave[/QUOTE]

 

[callingcolleen1]

Mitch is is ok for you to have your pond totally covered in ice and run only that pond breather cause you have small fish and a massive pond. However People with large fish in a smaller pond need to worry much more about having total ice coverage that is for sure!

 

[Dave 54]

I hadnt finished putting the post together when you answered I'd read that research paper myself and was adding the link sorry my friend
Thank you for clarifying this virus for me but what about the differences in temperature how can the same virus act so differently when it comes to the two extremes I posted ?

Dave

 

[callingcolleen1]

Maybe Dave it is a virus and the fish have to catch it? So then it would have nothing to do with ice cold water other than because the fish are weakened from the virus then they get sicker in the cold?

Here is my pond after a long period of extended cold, you will see lots of ice covering the pond and only the one heater for all three connecting ponds (roughtly 3500 Imperial Gallons) we went thew lots of minus 40 below last year and the ground was frozen very hard and some people their pipes froze down at 6 feet I heard!

 

[j.w]

@callingcolleen1 Now you just use that heater in that area to keep a hole open and that's it right? Your heater does not really warm the pond much at all so you can say your pond is really, really cold and your fish make it through winter just fine.

 

[dieselplower]

I use only ONE heater ever! I have always used a 1500 watt but last year I switched to a 1250 watt to see what the difference was and when I used the smaller green 1200 watt I had more ice. No temperature difference in the water, just the amount of ice covering the pond.
And for the record I get just as cold as St. John's and I can keep koi here in the Minus 45 below and have for the past 24 years.

I see. I must have misunderstood. I thought you used a 1250 all the time and threw in a 1500 on top of that when it gets very cold. My apologies!