Doc / Skippy / XYZ filter question

[fishin4cars]

With this all being said, can you show us what your using and how it works? I'm wanting to gather all the information I can on all types of filters before my next build. I've been doing this for quites some time and I would say I'm pretty experienced. But I'm taking a little different approach on the next build. I'm going to build it with maintaining high quality water in mind first, keeping fish second, In the past I've always started them the other way around.

So far things I'm highly considering for my next build,
Straight down sides, No shelves in the Koi pond.
Sloped Bottom and areated bottom drains,
Shower tower for oxygen and Bio-filter
I really want a seperator before I start doing mechanical or biological filtering
Phoam extractor.

Issues I'm trying to accomplish learning, Installing bottom drain, turn over rates for the complete pond for good strong growth, some way of determining how much Bio-filter I will need for about 25 adult koi, (Plan is to build two ponds!) I want pristine clear water with a strong flow rate. Pond size estimating about 7500 gallons per pond maybe going as large as 10,000. Yes I know the filter system will be very large. I also want to make a Drain system that I can backflush, drain, over flow, etc and still can keep any fry that may get into the drainage system from escaping into the wild.

 

[cauzeneffeckt]

I use a sand and gravel system for my mechanical filtration, and because my pond is only 1000-1200 i even get some BIO with it. The sand and gravel system can handle 2500 gph, so based on your expected size you would tee of into three of them. I by no means created it, but I love it. It does Great FINES filtration and setup properly can be a breeze to clean. Here is a link to what we call a Birdman Filter... Hes a real knowledgeable guy that does this for a living and have taken a bunch of advice from him.

http://tinyurl.com/3pcg7fc

 

[DrDave]

Cause
Everyone here has a right to their opinion, that said;
Before you start bad mouthing a filter that thousands are using very succesfully, worldwide, consider this;
When I open the 2" dump valve, the water that comes out is dark green to almost pitch black. The water that was coming out of the overflow just prior to the dump could be put into a drinking glass and only a few particles can be seen in suspension. It is not perfect, I would say 98% of the junk does not overflow but does get caught in the vortex. That is, if you have the right geometry and flow.

It is not necessary to hose or scrub the fencing because that is what is providing the colony of aerobic bacteria to grow and thrive.

This design never clogs, never builds up pressure, and never needs any cleaning other than the dump once a week during the summer if you have a lot of fish.

Sand and gravel filters along with pressure filters work great for a few hours and then they start to clog up, they are messy to clean or complicated with air jets for backwashing. Either way, you can't clean one in 45 seconds without getting your hands wet.

If you didn't have luck with yours, perhaps it was not constructed correctly or maybe the flow was off. Either way, it may not geive the desired results.

Finally, if you firmly press the PVC together, and it is clean, unless you are running a pressure filter that provides back pressure, they will never come apart. If yours did, then you had extraordinary circumstances. I have used this method for 43 years with no problems and the advice I provide comes from all those years of doing this.

 

[cauzeneffeckt]

I don't have much time to respond right now but Dave you are confused what a sand and gravel filter is. It does not clog, is not pressured, has no air jets. I believe you are confused with pool or pond sand presurized filters. Not what I'm talking about in this instance... Follow the link and you would see. I clean mine once a week but sometimes things happen and I can't clean it for a week or two and have Never had an issue. You have this mistaken for something else. I'll respond to the rest when I have time

 

[cauzeneffeckt]

Lets start off now. No where am I BAD MOUTHING your filter. I was giving advice, that it is best used along with a primary mechanical filter. Now where di i say this filter is crap, its garbage... Actually this filter with the sole purpose of BIO filtration is most probably the best bang for the buck. Is this forum to polish egos or to be informative?

The principle behind mechanical filtration is simple. The idea is to physically remove particles, and waste matter from the pond water. Many times a fine medium such as cotton, poly, and other synthetic materials are used to trap detritus, dead plant matter, and other debris.

Mechanical filters need to be removed, cleaned, and replaced on a regular basis. Otherwise, waste products will accumulate, and decompose, continuing to lower the livability of the aquarium environment. This puts major stress on the fish and other inhabitants of the pond. One of the secrets to successful pond care in all applications is to maintain the mechanical filters. Replacing this media will help ensure the long term success of your pond. When filtering waste from a pond, it is better to Mechanically filter it before continuing onto the Bio-Filtration. This permits the Bio-filter stage to perform optimally.

Types of Mechanical Filtration

For mechanical filtration you want to have your filtration media cover up the most area possible so it can trap as much as possible. These are specifically mechanical

Here are a few forms of good Mechanical filtration, these arent my filters or pictures

Bacti Twist - i find it pricey but alot of people swear by this

Settlement chambers - i consider this kind of a mechanical as it is used to settle solid

Matala mats - these are sold in different sizes to trap from the biggest to the smallest type of waste. It is washable and will last a very long time. Some people use the filter stuff they sell at a hardware store, while you can use that. It will not last as long and is not as easy to.

Static K1 Filter -
This is a 55gal filled to the top with k1 media

S&G filter
This uses three levels different sized gravel, its is upflow and it does an amazing job at catching fines. And if you go on vacation you dont have to worry if you miss a few cleanings.

Sieves - these are amazing but pricey, unlike all other type of mechanical filtration this actually removes the gunk from the water. All other filters have the waste still in the water you are filtering until you flush or backwash it.


BIO FILTRATION
the following image shows media from a bio filter when its new, in the beginning stages of colonization and when a bio colony is fully cycle.

look at that versus this (sorry LEN not trying to insult just educate)

http://pondfilter.freewebpage.org/images/filterdirty.gif

that my friend is CRUD, not the bacteria you want to grow for your biological filtration. While some may grow within the crud it is not OPTIMAL. That is why i recommended to use in conjuction with a mechanical filter (not completely do away with it how you are accusing me of suggesting). and by opening the bottom valve for 45 secs does not remove all of that crud on the bird netting.

And how i said earlier this filter does great for bio, when used solely for that purpose.

As for the sand and gravel filter, i did not say it is better, nor did i say to build it. He asked what I used. I simply provided a link.

I honestly think this will be my last post on this forum for the simple reason that if you do not agree with the ways of the popular folk here, your either bashing on them or dont know what you are talking about. This was the first forum i came to when i first built a pond. I thought this was a place to share ideas and opinions as I was doing.

My recommendation to new ponders, do lots of research in many places. I have joined forums from all over the world (england, australia, middle east, japan) just so i can take in as much as I can and learn. See what works and what doesnt. That is obviously not welcomed on this forum. And I have no doubt my post will be deleted as it goes against the grain. I hope this brought some light as in what I was recommending and good luck.

 

[vertigo72]

cauzeneffeckt, you make some interesting points, and I think everyone likes to read to different POVs and make up their own minds. No such thing as absolute truth, especially not when it comes to the black art of ponding. Most people look at their own pond (and only have one) and draw their conclusions from that, but the amount of variables is insane.

Not sure why you are being so aggressive/defensive though, perhaps its something that happened in another thread I missed. But as long as you post your arguments in a civil way, I for one would continue to enjoy reading your contribution, no matter if you think they go against the consensus here (dont think there is one tho).

 

[addy1]

Nice write up on filters cauzeneffeckt. That will help some in understanding how they work.

 

[koiguy1969]

i will say i have to agree that mechanical filtration and removal of wastes before bio filtration will enhance performance. the bigger the bioload the more impact it can have. but that said "if it aint broke dont fix it"...if your happy with what youve got thats all that matters as log as your pond and fish are suffering because of it!