I saw an air lift pond, I think on Koiphen, which was moving an impressive amount of water. And of course a bunch on Youtube. If the pond is designed for air lift I think it's more useful. I'm still interested in the energy cost vs water pump.
DIY Air Lift Pond Vacuum
- Thread starter divedaddy03
- Start date
HTH
Howard
Did anyone in the videos do a cost calculation?
I am more intrigued with the idea that on could run it with nothing more then a fish guard on the input and never worry about the input plugging. It would make leaving home for a few days that much easier.
To get enough pipe under water for shallower ponds one could dig a post hole and bury a PVC pipe large enough to hold the pump.
Regarding the compressor. If one is after efficiency you do not want the compressor turning off as restarting take quite a bit of current. One should size the compressor and lift(s) so the compressor can produce just the amount of needed air at the desired pressure.
In contrast to the fine bubble idea I found this about suction dredges. I do not know which idea is better suited.
This has the advantage over find bubbles in that we only need enough air pressure to get the air to the depth where it is released. One can run the compressor without a regulator. Will need a solenoid and related circuitry to time the air bursts.
A full sized unit or two might be a cool way to pump water for a water fall that only flows on demand.
Fun stuff.
I am more intrigued with the idea that on could run it with nothing more then a fish guard on the input and never worry about the input plugging. It would make leaving home for a few days that much easier.
To get enough pipe under water for shallower ponds one could dig a post hole and bury a PVC pipe large enough to hold the pump.
Regarding the compressor. If one is after efficiency you do not want the compressor turning off as restarting take quite a bit of current. One should size the compressor and lift(s) so the compressor can produce just the amount of needed air at the desired pressure.
In contrast to the fine bubble idea I found this about suction dredges. I do not know which idea is better suited.
With some luck we might be able to scale this down using a shorter smaller diameter pipe. Perhaps a cluster of 1 or 2 inch pipes.
This has the advantage over find bubbles in that we only need enough air pressure to get the air to the depth where it is released. One can run the compressor without a regulator. Will need a solenoid and related circuitry to time the air bursts.
A full sized unit or two might be a cool way to pump water for a water fall that only flows on demand.
Fun stuff.
No, I've never seen a cost analysis on air lift. I have read many people considering air to be a cheaper way to move water like with a bubbler but no actual analysis for even that.
Good point on air not having the clogging issue water pumps have.
I'd never heard the idea of bursts. Interesting. Might be pretty easy to rig a circuit that cycled air to several stand pipes so the air could be contiguous, 2 seconds in pipe A, 2 seconds pipe B, 2 seconds pipe C and back to pipe A.
Good point on air not having the clogging issue water pumps have.
I'd never heard the idea of bursts. Interesting. Might be pretty easy to rig a circuit that cycled air to several stand pipes so the air could be contiguous, 2 seconds in pipe A, 2 seconds pipe B, 2 seconds pipe C and back to pipe A.
HTH
Howard
YesWaterbug said:
My thinking that a micro controller is the only way to go at least during the experimentation stage as it is the most flexible . They are so cheap it is pointless to start with 555 timers or such.
They may even be a kit in this.
I hope you can do this and share. Would be very interesting.
HTH
Howard
I will put it on the list 
This is all very usful speak and an interesting conversation.
I would like to see the research or a trial run of short burst action, I would be surprised if it works like is stated above in the quote.
Reason being that it takes a build up of air to get the flow going....then depending on the head height it will burp repetitively before the flow starts.
Back to my vacuum.
No doubt that the horizontal hose is inhibiting the overall flow and/or volume that it produces without the hose. (ie. when attached directly to the vacuum, the filter sock fills up with air and material so fast that it nearly pops like a balloon because air and water can't escape fast enough...when attached at the end of the discharge this is not an issue)
That said, I believe that the air is not getting "trapped" in the discharge hose anywhere. When I had it set up attached to the 2x4's, the highest point was at the end of the 2x4's closes to the vacuum. In doing this, the air was needed to push the water up to that point (believe me, the hose was really heavy [still sloping up] and full of mostly water) and then gravity carried it to the absolute end of the discharge line...at this point, the line was not full of water (only about half) which allows for the air to escape and not be trapped in the highest point.
The shear volume of air that I was running would also have not allow it to be trapped.
The reason for capping off the top of the vacuum (handle) with duck tape was to prevent the air from escaping out the top becuse that air is needed to force the water horizontally to the highest most point of the discharge line.
Once the discharge line was removed and the filter sock was attached directly to the vacuum discharge port, I removed the duck tape (partially) to allow for the air to escape there because it performed better this way.
I'm thinking that smaller hoses with high pressure air jet will be my next trial...that said, maybe I should be going for low pressure fine bubbles too....not sure....maybe a combination of both in the same system?
Wayne, SC
I would like to see the research or a trial run of short burst action, I would be surprised if it works like is stated above in the quote.
Reason being that it takes a build up of air to get the flow going....then depending on the head height it will burp repetitively before the flow starts.
Back to my vacuum.
No doubt that the horizontal hose is inhibiting the overall flow and/or volume that it produces without the hose. (ie. when attached directly to the vacuum, the filter sock fills up with air and material so fast that it nearly pops like a balloon because air and water can't escape fast enough...when attached at the end of the discharge this is not an issue)
That said, I believe that the air is not getting "trapped" in the discharge hose anywhere. When I had it set up attached to the 2x4's, the highest point was at the end of the 2x4's closes to the vacuum. In doing this, the air was needed to push the water up to that point (believe me, the hose was really heavy [still sloping up] and full of mostly water) and then gravity carried it to the absolute end of the discharge line...at this point, the line was not full of water (only about half) which allows for the air to escape and not be trapped in the highest point.
The shear volume of air that I was running would also have not allow it to be trapped.
The reason for capping off the top of the vacuum (handle) with duck tape was to prevent the air from escaping out the top becuse that air is needed to force the water horizontally to the highest most point of the discharge line.
Once the discharge line was removed and the filter sock was attached directly to the vacuum discharge port, I removed the duck tape (partially) to allow for the air to escape there because it performed better this way.
I'm thinking that smaller hoses with high pressure air jet will be my next trial...that said, maybe I should be going for low pressure fine bubbles too....not sure....maybe a combination of both in the same system?
Wayne, SC
I'm guessing the burst air lift is a single large bubble, big enough to fill the pipe and not break up.
This is the idea that I have in my head....please excuse the poor writing and spelling errors.
I can't figure out how to get a large picture to display here....gurr!divedaddy03 said:This is the idea that I have in my head....please excuse the poor writing and spelling errors.
Let's Try This Again Shall We?!
Thanks John!
Thanks John!
HTH
Howard
I love threads like this.
John I am wondering if there is any reason to fill the spaces between the lift pipes with foam. I would leave them open and top the outside pipe with a T (one leg pointing up). Let the air go out the top of the tee and the water drain off to the side. The Tee has to be at higher then any of the drain pipe. By my thinking the top of the lift pipe should always be the highest point.
Regarding the cone idea. Maybe make a donut or U shaped shaped diffuser plate. The serious hobby gold dredging people have systems with about the requirements. The ones I am thinking of suck the material from the bottom of the stream and deposit it on a floating processing system (maybe a sluce box). Don't know iif you have looked at them.
John I am wondering if there is any reason to fill the spaces between the lift pipes with foam. I would leave them open and top the outside pipe with a T (one leg pointing up). Let the air go out the top of the tee and the water drain off to the side. The Tee has to be at higher then any of the drain pipe. By my thinking the top of the lift pipe should always be the highest point.
Regarding the cone idea. Maybe make a donut or U shaped shaped diffuser plate. The serious hobby gold dredging people have systems with about the requirements. The ones I am thinking of suck the material from the bottom of the stream and deposit it on a floating processing system (maybe a sluce box). Don't know iif you have looked at them.
Waterbug I agree.
HTH said:
I enjoy them as well.
So....if the large pipe would not be acting solely as an outside sheath to house the lift pipes and the water could flow up though it as well....then technically there would be no need for the smaller lift pipes in the first place (the way you describe it), correct?
I'm not familiar with what the gold panning hobbiest use but I can try to familiarize myself...do you have a link that I could start with?
This is an interesting read, I'm not surprised by the results - http://digitalcommons.bucknell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=honors_theses
Another good read on bubble size (this is where the cone idea came from) - http://www.alabdiffusers.com/Airlift.htm
More Good Research on Rectangle Shaped Lift Pipes - http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/RectangularAirliftPump_11_12.pdf
Even More - http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/AirliftPumps.pdf
HTH
Howard
I would try it with and without the inside pipes. At the very least it would help keep the air more evenly distributed.
This is about building a gold dredge. I see a blower so it must be an air power version but I did not see anything on the lift when I scanned it.
Getting late I will check out your links tomorrow.
This is about building a gold dredge. I see a blower so it must be an air power version but I did not see anything on the lift when I scanned it.
Getting late I will check out your links tomorrow.
Here's an analysis of an air lift. Missed this thread. Been reading Koiphen for more than 10 years, still haven't read it all.