Did I ruin my new pond?

[Waterbug]

Technically, you've done nothing wrong. For a pure Wildlife Pond the topsoil and algae are all good things...at least they will be. It can take a Wildlife Pond a year or two to settle down. Some are always choked with algae, some aren't, some are very clear, some never seem to clear. That's kind of the deal...nature controls what you get. You just add the water and initial nutrients.

I first started keeping ponds in Upstate NY and there were hundreds of Wildlife Ponds in my area, of all kinds, all different, all changed a lot throughout the year. I love all the life in a Wildlife Pond, but I'm guessing 99.8% of people in the US would consider them all evil stagnant cesspools kept by morons. For many people "nature" means something close to a swimming pool, or a city park. Just whatever people have experience with.

A local native minnow fish could help speed nature along. I think minnows help with a good bio diversity. They keep some insect species down allowing other species to grow. Bio diversity is a problem in the first few years. First you only have mosquitoes. Then tons of tadpoles. Later there will be bugs to prey on these, not eliminate, but keep numbers down. In an establish Wildlife Pond there will be mosquito larva but they'll be hard to find. But the first year you'll see almost nothing but mosquito larva. But they'll be the food to start other bugs who will be ready for them next year. So fish are not the only way to keep mosquito levels down.

I like to just add clay soil to a Wildlife Pond. It clouds the water badly for weeks or months, but it doesn't have a ton of nutrients. Some chicken manure can be added if you want to jump start everything and it decomposes fast. Top soil/compost takes a long time to decompose into what would be normal for a pond. So I'd drain and remove all the sand and soil and just add the clay soil. Sand doesn't really add anything. Just takes up space. No reason to have sand in a pond unless you're trying to grow specific species like calms.

It all depends of course on how far you want to go toward a Wildlife Pond. Most people lean toward more of a Water Garden, but you sound pretty serious. If so, you're on track. Just isn't going to be very pretty for a year or so.

Another option is to start out as a Water Garden and then slowly let that become a Wildlife Pond. That way the first year isn't super ugly. In that case I would still remove all the current water and sand/soil. Just add some clay in the very bottom to start.

 

[c2g]

Thanks for all the great info. @Waterbug - I'm in that .2% with you. When I was a kid, I was fascinated with ponds. Vernal pools and ponds were easy to find and I would spend hours fascinated by the life found in them. They're all gone now, but I'd like my kids to have that same opportunity. The area around the pond will have about 30 species of native plants, and I'm creating brush and rock piles for shelter.

1. First thing I have to decide is whether or not to drain the pond. I'd have to rent a sump pump and think of a place to drain it all. Not looking forward to this route, but knowing it was a mistake would haunt me. The designer I'm working with for plant selection thought I could get away with just adding clay to the planting shelves after digging out what I could. The stone/gravel as a medium seems interesting, too. Draining seems like the safest bet, it's just whether I can work it into my schedule.

2. If it were up to me, I'd go all in and ride out the mosquito part... it's my wife, kids, and neighbors who might not be so thrilled with the breaking-in period. It's been a rough summer here for mosquitoes and while everyone's fascinated with my native plant experiments, I feel an outbreak would push them over the edge. What are people's thoughts on Bti mosquito dunks being used during the break-in phase? Like everything else on the internet, I've heard pros and cons about this from it only targeting mosquitos to having harmful effects on beneficial insects, including dragonfly larvae and butterflies.

This water garden phase is starting to sound appealing, just to get things off the ground.

 

[Phil]

Hmmm, I hadn't considered that option. I will look into that. Given your close proximity to me, you don't take your plants out in the winter, do you? I wasn't planning on it, and I'm hoping to get the pond planted in the next week or so to get an early jump on the fall planting window.

c2g, I took nothing out of the pond over the winter. In late October I cut everything (and I mean everything!) back to the crown but left the roots where where they were, and all of the plants came back except for one marginal that looked like long stemmed clover. Taking a page out of Colleen's book I also kept my pump running all winter long and have had crystal clear water all year. I also used a bubbler but no heater. The falls iced over twice for a day or two each time but were pretty cool to look at.

I know you don't want to have a permanent pump and filter set up, but maybe you could borrow or rent one for a short time to clear the water up and then take it out. It may end up to be a cheaper/easier alternative than pumping all the water out.

Again, best of luck!

 

[shakaho]

How is it a natural pond without fish? As Waterbug said, some native minnows would eat mosquito larvae, and they would also provide food to waterbirds, frogs, turtles, etc. Even if you don't put any fish in, the birds will eventually drop some in.

 

[Waterbug]

Vernal pools and ponds were easy to find...

You really are into this. I almost never run into anyone who even knows what a Vernal pool is. I have one, kind of. Don't have the plants at different levels, my systems are far too small, but I use plants that can go dormant in our hot summer and pop back when I add water again in the fall. Right now my nut sedge beds are sprouting. A splash of bright green in a desert landscape.

I do think a Water Garden can actually create more bio diversity faster. Muddy water in the short term really tamps down algae growth which tamps down everything else. To me algae is the key building block. If you do empty the pond you might consider trying to find another pond or lake you can get water and algae from to seed the next fill. Few buckets of water should have a lot of creatures.

I'm not a fan of standard flat pond selves. They don't hold soil. Here's basically what I do instead.

You can add as many shelves as you like, as deep as you like. I think it better mimics a mud pond in nature. And gives a better ecosystem for all the bugs that need to be in soil and roots. Keeps soil in place. Otherwise it will all end up at the bottom someday.

 

[Waterbug]

How is it a natural pond without fish? As Waterbug said, some native minnows would eat mosquito larvae, and they would also provide food to waterbirds, frogs, turtles, etc. Even if you don't put any fish in, the birds will eventually drop some in.

I had mud ponds that didn't have fish. Seemed natural enough to me. A lot of life anyways. But I do like fish.

 

[c2g]

What a great idea. Just wish I saw this before I trimmed my liner. I can imagine what will happen to my shelf after a big rain event or once the raccoons get brave enough to start poking around in there.

Pond seems to be settling a bit as of this morning. No surface foam or debris floating. Unless I find a sump pump within the next couple days, I may just give it one more round of hand cleaning and forego draining the pond. I'm too busy for the next month or so to put major hours into it.

 

[Dave's pond Indiana]

I have for eight years now used pea gravel to put my plants in and I turn my water lilies loose once they get big enough. I do have gravel in the bottom of my pond. In a new pond I think the gravel helps in the eco. cycle. I am in the process of removing some of the gravel from the bottom of my pond in areas were I do not want plants now that the pond is established.

 

[dieselplower]

. Right now my nut sedge beds are sprouting. A splash of bright green in a desert landscape.

Hey Waterbug how does nut sedge do in a garden pond environment like mine? Where I am from it is an extremely invasive lawn weed. The regular herbicide in a weed and feed type of treatment will not kill it. I noticed it growns about twice as fast as the grass it grows in. Is it something that I might actually disire in a bog or something and does it produce seeds that will blow out of its container and into the lawn or do you know how it spreads?

Nevermind, i Googled it hahaha. But you can still comment if you want.

 

[Kristi Kelty]

c2g~ What did you use under your perimeter rocks to prevent them from damaging the liner material?

 

[c2g]

@Kristi - Aside from picking flat rocks, I didn't use anything. Any suggestions? I'm using the Firestone 45 mil EPDM liner with carpet/sand underneith.

I just siphoned about 3/4 of the pond out today. Going to spray the rocks down tomorrow and get the sand/soil mix out of the shelf. Plan is to let the excess fill up the 1' deep overwintering hole and top that off with some gravel. Still not decided on what to fill the shelf with but I'm leaning toward some mix of river rock, gravel, and clay.

Scary amount of mosquito larvae in what was left, so I had to go the mosquito dunk route for now so my kids don't get eaten alive.

Also, got some established pond water from a friend. Had about 5 dragonfly larvae in it, so I put those in my barrel pond out front while I get this one situated.

 

[c2g]

For thoses following along at home, here's where I'm at with the wildlife pond:

After draining most of the pond, I tried scooping out whatever soil/sand was left from the shelf yesterday, but there was a bunch left in the rock wall. I started taking down the wall, adding cutoff liner for an extra layer of protection, hosing off the rocks, and stacking them back up again. I did this for about 5' before I realized it would take forever. Instead, I set the hose to power wash and blasted whatever I could out of the rocks and down into the deep part. Then I sponged off the film from the liner. This saved me a lot of time, and I feel like I'm back to a clean slate.

Today, set up my hose siphon to drain the deep end so I can see how much sand/soil settled on the bottom. Once it drains, I'll leave the overwintering hole filled and cover it with a layer of pea gravel. The rest I'll remove. First, I put down an inch or so of pea gravel in the shelves and packed in the base of the wall. Then I added about 4-5" of clay left over from my excavation. Removed what rocks I could and packed it down by hand. Finally, I added another few inches of pea gravel to "hold down" the clay layer. I might add some clay to the top of one small section just to see how it looks compared to the pea gravel once I refill the pond and everything settles. I have enough room for another 1" or so if I decide to go this route.

I'll continue to monitor my progress and hopefully see what works. Here are pics from today:

http://imgur.com/a/aUWMF

 

[Kristi Kelty]

c2g I am a newbie at this but it looks beautiful to me! Did you use the foam to attach the rocks?

 

[c2g]

c2g I am a newbie at this but it looks beautiful to me! Did you use the foam to attach the rocks?

No foam or mortar. I saw your thread where that was mentioned. For the shelf, I dug that with a slight slope down toward the pond edge as I see someone recommended in your thread. So the shelf wall leans slightly into the shelf, and I took my time stacking the rocks (adding shims, etc.). I'm not a mason, but I've done enough stone projects to pull off a solid 12" dry stack. Figure in the pea gravel and clay I just added to the shelf, and it feels like it will be plenty sturdy.

For the rocks around the pond edge, those are just temporary to hold the liner in place until I bury the excess. Thinking about a little shovel work under the liner edge so I can lay flat stone, tuck the liner over and under that, and then set my edge stones. I'm going for a natural look and have a ton of native plants planned outside the pond. Wish I could go right up to the pond with them without a traditional stone border, but that seems like the safe bet for avoiding a potential mess after a heavy rainstorm.

 

[Kristi Kelty]

c2g is there a reason for having some pea gravel and other areas soil?
We are having a lot of rain here today~ watching the level of the pond......was wondering: I have a sump pump located beneath the house about 20 feet from the pond. I have never used one- but suppose that it could be used to siphon off the water if it got too full? --Just drain it into the sump pump ?
Anyway, your pond is looking great~ I am "pondering" now if I should use the foam or not to hold the stones. I like the look of plants trailing over the perimeter rocks and into the water....how does one suggest I do that?
Also, will it work if I dig down about 3" at the distant edge of the perimeter stones----- making an area for patio? (I am wondering what will happen if I choose not to revise the shelf area with a ledge slanting back toward the wall......) ?
Lots of questions still but it's slowly getting there!
K