Desperate. Fish dying

[Dave 54]

With all due respect to "Doc Johnson", The jury is still out on the safety of Superverm, especially long-term.

www.koihealthadvisor.org/kha_images/pdf/fieldguide2004.pdf

"Supaverm:
Know that this product has been accused of burning fins and suppressing the immune system. This accusation has been substantiated by several members of Koiphen. In the UK, there are more reports surfacing regarding the long range effect on the immune system as they have been using it for several years longer than here in the US. Therefore I would
strongly urge that it be avoided. There are several methods for reducing flukes which are much safer. It is not recommended here."
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?42809-Emergency-Section-Koi-Health-Sticky-2011

"Supaverm ® (not technically approved for use in this country) is a combination of anti-fluke and anti-nematode active ingredients has been used by many koi hobbyists. It is labeled as a sheep dewormer, but has been used in ponds to
remove gill and skin flukes in goldfish and koi. It is widely accepted that it kills goldfish, and it is now known to cause koi deaths, too. Prazi® is therefore, the recommended first choice at this time for removal of gill and skin flukes."
www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/Articles/Aqua/.../koi%20husb.pdf

It would appear to me that the safe and wiser choice here would be the use of a universally accepted (and legal) and effective treatment such as Praziquantel. Why would or should one take the risk of using Superverm?

I would strongly suggest then that koiphen take it up with Eric L Johnson DVM and have it removed from the koi vet website, however Meyer like all chemicals if not used correctly deaths and damage to our fish can and will occur this is why I always bang on about knowing the exact gallonage both Imperial and US before treating your fish .
The best and easiest way to do this is to meter the water into the pond on completion of the build.
When I last used superverm it was under the supervision of our clubs health officer and was way back in my tank days [it makes me wonder if these reported deaths are from overdoses on the side of the koi keeper] !!!
Kusuri fluke M is my choice nowadays however this isnt about the sutability of superverm as a treatment for koi as Country Escape PM'd me and asked me the name of the chemical after I mentioned it in a post some years ago thats why it was mentioned.
We are trying to get to the bottom of another persons goldfish deaths after crops were sprayed.
Peronally because of the time period between spraying and the deaths I dont think it was the chemicals sprayed by the farmer.
I think these goldfish have a case of either chilodonella, Gyrodactylus or Dactylogyrus or some other parasite that leaves them favouing heavily oxygenated water with deaths occuring through heavy infestation.
Only a scrape will tell us the answer

Dave

 

[CountryEscape]

MMathis, I wondered the same thing, how a chemical can be deadly for goldfish, and safe or at least safer for koi. My goldfish kill may not have had anything to do with the chemicals used to spray the fields either, but it sure was coincidental, then. I'll err on the safe side and continue to be informed if/when they plan to spray with planes on the fields surrounding my house. It's only fair I get the chance to cover my ponds, if they are going to continue to spray my yard.
Meyer, I did ask Dave to let this post know the name of the chemical, as if he can find out what was used on the surrounding property, he MAY find a derivative of this chemical.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyer, I did ask Dave to let this post know the name of the chemical, as if he can find out what was used on the surrounding property, he MAY find a derivative of this chemical.

Can you not ask the owner(s) of the fields surrounding your house what was sprayed. I believe that the firm that did the spraying is obligated, by law, to reveal what was put on their property.
Superverm is a combination of two (2) chemicals specifically used as a sheep dip. It is not classified as an insecticide. There are already entirely too many of those already.

 

[Usman]

It can be that the actual spray didnot directly harmed the fish as its minute quantity in air and it gets diluted when it enters large quantity of water ... rather the rain collected all that was spread around and fell in the pond , pond should have some border to prevent this .

There are some fish meds for treatment that are poisonus but used in minute quantity for benefit . over dose of any intense meds can kill easily

 

[Faebinder]

If the chemical sprayed was anything like what they used in classic insecticides then it's suffocating the fish via antiacetylcholinesterase mechanisms. I wonder if atropine in the pond would help. Not a fish doctor here. If you get the name of the compound I'll tell you what likely happened to your fish.

 

[CountryEscape]

The farmer by me that sprayed a fungicide 2 years ago was more than happy to tell me the name of the chemical they sprayed. I don't remember it any longer, but I did look it up and all the "ingredients" and seemed to find something in it that had a similar root to the part of superverm, and that's when I decided (never did really know for sure, though) that it was LIKELY that was the problem. Best part is that the fish have stopped dying. Mine did the same thing, huge numbers died first 4-5 days, then slacked off a bunch, and by day 10, no more dead fish.

 

[CometKeith]

Hey CE, Thanks for adding your expertise to this thread. Sorry to revive bad memories of losing so many fish. Whenever they spray here for skeeters it always kills my tadpoles. I guess frogs are really sensitive to a lot of chemicals. I heard recently that now they are worried they may be over-spraying for Zika and that may have harmful effects as well.

 

[Lisak1]

Hey CE, Thanks for adding your expertise to this thread. Sorry to revive bad memories of losing so many fish. Whenever they spray here for skeeters it always kills my tadpoles. I guess frogs are really sensitive to a lot of chemicals. I heard recently that now they are worried they may be over-spraying for Zika and that may have harmful effects as well.

Like killing bees in mass quantities...

 

[Mmathis]

Hey CE, Thanks for adding your expertise to this thread. Sorry to revive bad memories of losing so many fish. Whenever they spray here for skeeters it always kills my tadpoles. I guess frogs are really sensitive to a lot of chemicals. I heard recently that now they are worried they may be over-spraying for Zika and that may have harmful effects as well.

Yes, frogs are an important bio-indicator. Not sure if that's the correct term, but I think you know what I mean.

@Lisak1 You are exactly right! How irresponsible!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This from the CDC web page on the Zika virus.

"Aerial spraying will not harm fish or animals that live in the water. People do not need to cover fish ponds when spraying takes place. If a larvicide is sprayed, it is better if ponds are not covered."
http://www.cdc.gov/zika/vector/aerial-spraying.html

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Please take careful note: The quote posted from the CDC does not say "All aerial spraying". They are referring in particular to Naled and BT. not to any other pesticide or herbicide.