CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[addy1]

This is what my ponds bottom looks like, zero cleaning for probably the last 6 years, don't recall the last time I messed with it. You can see the folds in the liner, still uncovered by muck 11 years later.

The stuff on the bottom is maybe 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch thick, under the brown is pea gravel kitty litter etc. When I groom the lilies I do not sink into a deep mess. You can see the trap door snails hanging out down there. This is about 3-4 feet deep. I was out shutting the pond down for the winter.

Ignore the net it is falling apart I need to get a new one next year.

 

[combatwombat]

Got busy with work for a week. Rained like crazy. I dug some new channels to direct runoff away from the hole. 99% of the excavation stayed intact, so calling it a success.

Rolled out my underlayment today and started putting it in. It's woven, not the recommended non-woven. But couldn't pass it up. 600 yards of 5oz fabric for $325. This is the stuff loggers build their access roads with around here. Tough stuff. Plan to sandwich the liner in it for extra protection. Have a neighbor from Nextdoor pulling some carpet this week, going to pick it up to use as rock pads.

Don't know how you all get the folds out of your liners. Just getting started with the underlayment is proving challenging, and that's multiple pieces. Kick it into place in one spot, it pops out in another. Gonna get after it again tomorrow and channel my inner Mr. Miyagi—wax on, wax off.

Realizing I must have messed up my liner measurement a bit, too, as I'm going to have WAY TOO much. 25' width of underlayment got me almost all the way there, and I ordered a 40' wide liner. Guess it never hurts to go too big. Can't imagine trying to get a big liner in a mishapen hole with just 1' to play with on each side. Should give me lots if freedom to dig some shallower shelves around the edge if I want. Though I really don't have the space to go any bigger.

Still have some digging to do in the intake bay area to accommodate my water matrix blocks.

Finally, made the decision to go with an external pump instead of a submersible. No line voltage in the pond! After a lot of research, I'll probably go with something like a Sequence 1000 series pump @ 5100gpm. With 3" plumbing, I should get about 4900 gpm to my bog/waterfall for a max of 290 watts. What a deal! Will then supplement that with some low voltage powerheads that should do about 2000 gpm each and placed in spots where I expect circulation to need a boost. If all goes to plan, I'll be circulating and filtering a 7,000 gal pond well under an hour for under 400 watts. That's better than I expected.

Figuring all that out was a fun trip down memory lane of high school engineering class—looking at head pressure tables for different sized pipes and fittings and calculating electric usage from amps/volts when manufacturers don't list wattage.

And that's the brain dump for today!

 

[GBBUDD]

going to pick it up to use as rock pads.

i hope your referring to carpet being under the liner

Your intake bay looks more like a negative edge . nothing wrong with that once leaves etc are pulled into the area. they won't be coming out

 

[GBBUDD]

Don't know how you all get the folds out of your liners. Just getting started with the underlayment is proving challenging, and that's multiple pieces. Kick it into place in one spot, it pops out in another. Gonna get after it again tomorrow and channel my inner Mr. Miyagi—wax on, wax off.

One of the most efficient ways is when your filling you can work out some of the wrinkles but i believe your looking at stone in the pond . so it's just a matter of working it the best you can

 

[combatwombat]

i hope your referring to carpet being under the liner

I was just planning to put it over the liner where I thought I'd need extra padding before setting down heavier rocks.

Your intake bay looks more like a negative edge

It looks that way because I haven't cut down the ledge between the pond and the bay. I was going to shoot the whole pond with my level one more time before filling to decide how much dirt to cut down to get the right water depth over the ledge.

I'd have to run my #s again, but pretty sure I have way too much water in motion for the intake bay space to function as a negative edge without going a lot deeper.

I know most seem to think of the negative edge as the best form of skimmer, but I kind of think they'd be a pain. With an intake bay, you just net out the debris that ends up in there. With a negative edge, you'd have to get after it with a rake and pick at it to clean. Seems like a lot more work. Also, I would think they're a lot more sensitive to water level change since you're only trying to skim an inch or so of water over the ledge.

I briefly looked into it, but it seemed not as great as I initially thought it would be and wrote it off. Feel free to try to talk me into it, though.

Also, after a deep dive on pumps, I now understand why you get grumpy about your power bill. I was shocked to see how much more energy large pumps require than smaller ones. A 12k gpm pump like yours must be a monster energy consumer. When you were building, did you consider doing a few smaller pumps instead of one big one? Seems like it would be a lot more electrically efficient.

 

[Lisak1]

I wouldn't put carpet inside the pond. Too much potential for mess in my mind - pieces fraying off the cut edges comes to mind. And who knows what that stuff is made out of - mostly chemicals it seems. We spent a lot of time comparing carpeting for our steps and ended up with 100% wool- 100% more expensive, but no chemicals involved in the production. You hear so much these days about carpet and toxic off-gassing. And unless that carpet is relatively new, it's going to be disgustingly dirty. We've taken out every wall to wall carpet in our house and, as someone who vacuums on a regular basis, I was SHOCKED at how filthy that carpet was. I'll never install wall to wall again. You'll have plenty of extra EPDM - use that as rock pads if you feel you need it.

And I agree to an extent on negative edge vs intake bay. We definitely have to rake and clean ours out from time to time. However, one plus is whatever goes over the edge stays over the edge, and it can hold a lot more debris than an intake bay would - size being equal. So I guess if you're truly looking for skimmer action, a negative edge is more reliable. But - I've never lived with an intake bay on a pond, either.

 

[Jhn]

know most seem to think of the negative edge as the best form of skimmer, but I kind of think they'd be a pain. With an intake bay, you just net out the debris that ends up in there. With a negative edge, you'd have to get after it with a rake and pick at it to clean. Seems like a lot more work. Also, I would think they're a lot more sensitive to water level change since you're only trying to skim an inch or so of water over the ledge.

With a negative edge, water level stays consistent in the pond. The reservoir below the rock and gravel where the pump is located is where the water level changes.

 

[GBBUDD]

function as a negative edge without going a lot deeper.

I think you'll be surprised how little 10,000 gph is across a 4 foot opening if anything its probably perfect for a good draw toward it. For leaves etc . Look at the video I attached with 5,000 gph as a water fall its alot less then one would expect

 

[GBBUDD]

With a negative edge, water level stays consistent in the pond. The reservoir below the rock and gravel where the pump is located is where the water level changes.

Correct, except the intake bay pond fluctuates as well just not as drastic. You'll still loose water regardless i automatic placement system fills tha bill.

 

[combatwombat]

I wouldn't put carpet inside the pond. Too much potential for mess in my mind - pieces fraying off the cut edges comes to mind.

This makes sense. I'll have tons of leftover underlayment. That might be good enough.

And I agree to an extent on negative edge vs intake bay.

I meant to tag you on that. I think you're the only person I've seen on the forum that has one.

With a negative edge, water level stays consistent in the pond. The reservoir below the rock and gravel where the pump is located is where the water level changes.

Ah, yes. You're right. I was thinking about it wrong.

I think you'll be surprised how little 10,000 gph is across a 4 foot opening if anything its probably perfect for a good draw toward it. For leaves etc . Look at the video I attached with 5,000 gph as a water fall its alot less then one would expect

I believe you size a negative edge skimmer on the amount of water in motion, not flow. So, if you have 3" of water in your wetland filter, a stream, and then 2-3" of water falling over your negative edge, your basin has to be sized to hold enough water for your flow + be able to capture all of that water in motion (surface area of pond * 2-3" + wetland/stream water in motion) so that you don't overflow when you unplug your pump.

 

[GBBUDD]

Correct, except the intake bay pond fluctuates as well just not as drastic. You'll still loose water regardless i automatic placement system fills tha bill.

Whoops didn't see you had jumped in there @Jhn .
The other post I want to weigh in on is I would not use carpet inside the pond under any circumstances. I have had very susceptible people have issues with there carpeting to the point it had to be ripped out and I'm talking thousands of dollars. The homeowner was very very sensitive. So that says to me carpet in the water where fish live 24 /7 I wouldnt do it id take your woven fabric and make layers of it bunched up and put under any rock you question

 

[GBBUDD]

I meant to tag you on that. I think you're the only person I've seen on the f

No i built a negative edge as well but I made it a water fall as well its at the beginning of the last video I posted on my blog but Lisa has a dry area (no pond) after the negative edge . I have mine as a double pool area. The first negative aspect is the falls of a foot it lands in a 6x6 foot pool where I keep the ends of a branch in tge water so leaves etc get hung up and can be removed. It also allows leaves etc to fall to the bottom and not go over the next negative edge which is to the cistern. There I created a pocket wher debris is allowed to collect at the base of tge falls kinda like a skimmer basket but as debris collects the water level will rise in this pocket which is about a foot lower then the aquablox. So the water just rises and still flows into the area if it gets so full it will flow over the top and drop between the rocks ontop of the aqua blocks. What I dont particularly like about intake bays is there is no surface pull when leaves etc fall on a pond it takes hours or even days for them to sink a negative edge sucks them in very quickly if done correctly a intake bay may never have enough draw as it does not create a lot of pull.

 

[GBBUDD]

This makes sense. I'll have tons of leftover underlayment. That might be good enough.



I meant to tag you on that. I think you're the only person I've seen on the forum that has one.




Ah, yes. You're right. I was thinking about it wrong.




I believe you size a negative edge skimmer on the amount of water in motion, not flow. So, if you have 3" of water in your wetland filter, a stream, and then 2-3" of water falling over your negative edge, your basin has to be sized to hold enough water for your flow + be able to capture all of that water in motion (surface area of pond * 2-3" + wetland/stream water in motion) so that you don't overflow when you unplug your pump.

Correct as to needing the area to hold the water as if the power goes out and it will you need to allo8w for that water.
My bog does not empty out I just loose an inch because the spill way is wider then it is deep. The stream as a pool at the end so the water does not empty out there either it just stops running / flow. The pond on the other hand does drop about 3 inches do to the size. But 5hat water drops into the cistern now if the cistern is full then yes I will loose that water . But its collected rain water so I'm not paying for it. In your case how ever your pond and negative edge sides can be the same height from what I see so the only draw back is similar to your intake bay that the water will rise and over flow the divider / negative edge but having the sides even in height no water loss unless streamand bog empty out .

 

[Lisak1]

Well, USUALLY it's dry...

 

[GBBUDD]

Holly koi lol wow get a little rain there doen t that create issue with extra nutrients fertilizers etc yikes