CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[combatwombat]

Wow, this place gets a little loony in the winter, huh? Those are some sexy firewood pics, @j.w.

Went to pick up another "load" (what fits in the back of a subaru) of flagstone today, but there was none to be had! The stuff I need is apparently on a truck, that is stuck in the snow coming down Mt. Hood and no one is really sure when it's getting rescued.

In the mean time, I've been researching pumps again and really liking the idea of adjustable flow since circulation needs change through the seasons. And then I started wondering, why couldn't I just wire a dimer switch between any ol' pump and its power source to make any pump an adjustable one? Have to do a little more research, but I think it would work as long as you get the right kind of dimmer and don't exceed its power rating. I doubt I'll go this route, but gives me something to noodle on while I wait for a little more rock.

Also, figured out how to wash my pond sand the easy way. I just let the bottom fill up with rain water, stir up the sand to separate the silt, and then pump the silty water out. Wait for more rain and repeat.

Putting sand on the shelves has revealed that I need to upgrade my foaming game as well. It migrates down anywhere there are gaps between rocks.

 

[brokensword]

Wow, this place gets a little loony in the winter, huh? Those are some sexy firewood pics, @j.w.

Went to pick up another "load" (what fits in the back of a subaru) of flagstone today, but there was none to be had! The stuff I need is apparently on a truck, that is stuck in the snow coming down Mt. Hood and no one is really sure when it's getting rescued.

In the mean time, I've been researching pumps again and really liking the idea of adjustable flow since circulation needs change through the seasons. And then I started wondering, why couldn't I just wire a dimer switch between any ol' pump and its power source to make any pump an adjustable one? Have to do a little more research, but I think it would work as long as you get the right kind of dimmer and don't exceed its power rating. I doubt I'll go this route, but gives me something to noodle on while I wait for a little more rock.

Also, figured out how to wash my pond sand the easy way. I just let the bottom fill up with rain water, stir up the sand to separate the silt, and then pump the silty water out. Wait for more rain and repeat.

Putting sand on the shelves has revealed that I need to upgrade my foaming game as well. It migrates down anywhere there are gaps between rocks.

CW; seems we've had more than a few threads where varispeed pumps die and you're stuck with just the one speed it died on! I think you'd be further ahead using the ball valves and wyes/tees to get the flow you want. Remember, if you put a larger sized adaptor right at the output, you'll get more than if you stuck to the original size, so lots of latitude. And I'll bet you these varispeed pumps are more costly than those that are not! So, win win, ya know?

Best thing is to just fill the pond, let everything settle. If you got the right sand (and seems you have from earlier posts) anything light enough to rise up into the water column will eventually get sucked into the bog while the rest of the sand stays on the bottom (unless you're using jets and stir it up continuously). I set up a mini bog for my winter turtle/plant/fish pool in the basement yesterday and despite repeated rinsing, I still had a bit of cloudy water until it finally settled out. Pretty hard to get it as clean as you want initially but eventually, you'll get there; just don't stress it.

 

[combatwombat]

CW; seems we've had more than a few threads where varispeed pumps die and you're stuck with just the one speed it died on! I think you'd be further ahead using the ball valves and wyes/tees to get the flow you want.

Yeah, I know that's the common solution. I'd prefer one that allows me to manage energy usage as well, which you don't achieve w/ just ball valves. I've found that there are some mid-grade varispeed pumps where the controller is replaceable/serviceable so a stuck controller doesn't brick the whole system.

 

[brokensword]

Yeah, I know that's the common solution. I'd prefer one that allows me to manage energy usage as well, which you don't achieve w/ just ball valves. I've found that there are some mid-grade varispeed pumps where the controller is replaceable/serviceable so a stuck controller doesn't brick the whole system.

hope you get better longevity than some of the other posters have. But I get it; I tend to just prioritize what gets the energy $$ and which don't. I mean, not a lot of electricity if you use the firepit outside for all your summer meals, ya know? BBQ, anyone? What IS the relative $$ diff between what I'm suggesting and what you're looking at? And the replacement cost of the controller? What is the warranty for such a unit (with controller?) i.e. how many years hopefully are you expecting? Just curious and too lazy to do all the legwork you've done!

 

[combatwombat]

hope you get better longevity than some of the other posters have.

I've seen those complaints mostly in relation to old Aquascape variable pumps. I think they've changed their design to replaceable controllers as well.

What IS the relative $$ diff between what I'm suggesting and what you're looking at?

Depends. There are cheap-o pumps like Periha that are amphibious. They're variable speed but don't have much variability. Cost about $250 for a 6600 gph pump, but independent testing shows they don't even come close to their rating. Still, they deliver the best GPH/watt at less than 5' TDH, but lose ground quickly as TDH rises. Only expect about 4-5 years out of pump like that.

Then there is something like the Advantage Evolution 8500. It's external only, but you can drive the RPM way up or way down. Think that runs about $550. Not quite as energy efficient as Periha, but they deliver the GPH they say they will. Should get typical high quality pump longevity, and parts are readiliy available. Very popular pump with the koi pond crowd.

There are others, but those are the ones I've looked at most closely.

 

[brokensword]

I've seen those complaints mostly in relation to old Aquascape variable pumps. I think they've changed their design to replaceable controllers as well.


Depends. There are cheap-o pumps like Periha that are amphibious. They're variable speed but don't have much variability. Cost about $250 for a 6600 gph pump, but independent testing shows they don't even come close to their rating. Still, they deliver the best GPH/watt at less than 5' TDH, but lose ground quickly as TDH rises. Only expect about 4-5 years out of pump like that.

Then there is something like the Advantage Evolution 8500. It's external only, but you can drive the RPM way up or way down. Think that runs about $550. Not quite as energy efficient as Periha, but they deliver the GPH they say they will. Should get typical high quality pump longevity, and parts are readiliy available. Very popular pump with the koi pond crowd.

There are others, but those are the ones I've looked at most closely.

I wonder if there's any brand of pump that sort of slips under the radar, you know, like used for a different purpose other than a pond, where you don't have to pay the koi markup for such a beastie. Maybe something used by oceanographers (prob not and prob expensive) or maybe something the trades might use? Just spit-ballin' as I typically DON'T buy into the koi-markup. Sure, they're vetted, but for instance, without any pond fanfare, my one Danner pump has been running, with winter stops of 5 months, for 10 years and my other Danner has been running continuously now for 3. Can't say how energy efficient but will vouch for durability. The Periha (which I didn't know was 'cheap') puts out more than my 4K Danner and doesn't cost that much more, so is surprising. I've seen that brand spoken about on K-phen, where I figure most are into the 'koi cult' so don't spend much time nor give a lot of credence to(I know--there is wisdom there but when views get closed-minded--think bog filtration--I start questioning all their advice).

I'm sure you'll have some numbers re energy consumption and functional output and will be watching your posts just for that! Are you going to have a separate meter for anything pond? Would give you a better idea re consumption. Wonder if you can even PUT a meter on just that line? Sorry, you gots me thinkin' out loud now!

 

[combatwombat]

I wonder if there's any brand of pump that sort of slips under the radar, you know

Probably, but I'm running out of steam to look for it, and when Aquascape is your pricing anchor, pretty much everything else looks reasonable. haha

The Periha (which I didn't know was 'cheap') puts out more than my 4K Danner and doesn't cost that much more, so is surprising.

They're very low-head pumps built cheaply and their pump curves would make Pinocchio blush. But if you use them where they will shine and are willing to maintain them, I think they're a good solution. You can find the "real pump curve" on Koiphen. It's amazing below 5' of TDH (though still a fraction of what's claimed) and then gets unimpressive as TDH climbs.

I figure most are into the 'koi cult' so don't spend much time nor give a lot of credence to

Every community has its pros and cons. What I appreciate about Koiphen is their "prove it" mentality. You typically don't get to make claims over there without reproducible evidence. I like that. It makes it easier to separate the BS from the useful wisdom. It's not always like that, but that's kind of the culture. Leads to some friction, but also leads to truth.

Are you going to have a separate meter for anything pond? Would give you a better idea re consumption. Wonder if you can even PUT a meter on just that line?

Yes, I will at some point. I'll probably have the pond pumps on their own circuit, so easy to measure with a simple CT. Or even just spot checking with the clamp on my multi-meter. A $15 kill-a-watt device is also great for checking consumption of anything with a 120v/15amp plug on it.

 

[GBBUDD]

@brokensword: Not yet. Though I have been trimming it down where there's just too much of it. Loaded about a yard of sand into the bottom and shelves. Leaving area open where I still need to work.

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wish i saw this earlier i would have recommended a layer of stone flush up to the top of the pipes i don't know how well sand is going to work as the head pressure will add up but your going to let us know,

 

[brokensword]

wish i saw this earlier i would have recommended a layer of stone flush up to the top of the pipes i don't know how well sand is going to work as the head pressure will add up but your going to let us know,

ifn ya don't check in regularly, GB, ya miss all the fun!

 

[GBBUDD]

Gotten a bit slow around here . Maybe his idea will work better then I think . Like I said he's soon to find out and let us know

 

[GBBUDD]

Every community has its pros and cons. What I appreciate about Koiphen is their "prove it" mentality. You typically don't get to make claims over there without reproducible evidence. I like that. It makes it easier to separate the BS from the useful wisdom. It's not always like that, but that's kind of the culture. Leads to some friction, but also leads to truth.

They must love you, they are so anti bog over there..

 

[Jhn]

Every community has its pros and cons. What I appreciate about Koiphen is their "prove it" mentality. You typically don't get to make claims over there without reproducible evidence. I like that. It makes it easier to separate the BS from the useful wisdom. It's not always like that, but that's kind of the culture. Leads to some friction, but also leads to truth.

Only been over there for a little bit, I used to belong to reef forums years ago. I enjoy learning from knowledgeable individuals, but not the ones that feel the need to correct and lord their knowledge over others, like they know nothing. There way is the only correct way, not saying everyone over there is like that I wasnt there long enough to find out. But many on the reefing forums I used to be long to were and I have little tolerance and time for forums like that as I have gotten older. Everybody brings something valuable to a conversation and debate, sometimes you can learn from those that have been in a hobby much less time than yourself. How boring would life be if you truly knew everything and there was nothing left to learn……part of my enjoyment of my hobbies is constantly learning from others.

I don’t need reproducible evidence for me to know what works for me and how I enjoy my ponds, but I always say to each their own. I don’t even need to completely understand why someth8ng works to just know it works, and that is enough.

As much as myself and others tease you about taking foooooreeveeer to get your pond done.…..You seem to truly enjoy learning as much as possible before jumping into something, and there is something to be said for that and not rushing just to get it done. Still looking forward to the completion of it before the end of 2022 perhaps….plus we get gratuitous shots of Barney napping near your pond.

Also, I realized my ponds will never be truly finished as I am constantly adding stuff, tinkering, etc….but then again that is part of my joy and happiness with my ponds….so who I am I to throw stones, koi, goldfish or turtles…. or donkey kicking nut shots…..

 

[GBBUDD]

I had the same experience at aquaria central. With there reef forums you must do it this way or that. I did almost none of the recommended. Mt fertilizers for tge plants in a planted tank was bird poo. I had between 8 or two shift tail finches above the pond and as they dropped there waste it landed in the water and walk natural fertilizer. They say you must have this for lighting and I used two metal halide desk lamps. So while they may have a direction for the most popular or the most effective for there set up. I'm never surprised when I hear someone is successful with there own design. I have done it for years and always good to see people rginking outside the box

 

[combatwombat]

Well, looks like I'm draining the stupid pond again. The sand on the shelves is seeping down through the rock work on the walls and not staying put once it's saturated in the water. I knew that was going to be a problem when I put it in and thought, "I should foam all these joints." But the foam was in the garage and I was standing in the pond with buckets of sand, so I just went for it. Doh.

Once the sun is out and temps over 40, will be draining, removing sand along walls, foaming joints, and replacing sand. Lesson learned.

 

[brokensword]

Well, looks like I'm draining the stupid pond again. The sand on the shelves is seeping down through the rock work on the walls and not staying put once it's saturated in the water. I knew that was going to be a problem when I put it in and thought, "I should foam all these joints." But the foam was in the garage and I was standing in the pond with buckets of sand, so I just went for it. Doh.

Once the sun is out and temps over 40, will be draining, removing sand along walls, foaming joints, and replacing sand. Lesson learned.

maybe the real lesson is not to use sand on shelves?