CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[GBBUDD]

Oh the swimers itch was a parasite ! I just though the cousins had come over for a swim and left something like a baby ruth.

I guess that's what happens when you don't keep up . 🕶

 

[j.w]

Ok, a little more research this evening and I have a better handle on what's happening and feel confident that we'll be in the clear by winter even if earlier interventions fail. A couple important notes I didn't know before:

1. It can be carried by some mammals like raccoons and muskrats. The mallards were probably Patient 0, but we get frequent visits from raccoons who very well could be perpetuating the problem in our pond.
2. Infected snails will shed the parasite for life, but...
   • Snails do not pass the infection to each other, so once you eliminate the ducks/raccoons/etc from the pond, the parasite will be gone when the last generation of infected snails die.
   • Most snails cannot survive water below 50ºF. Our pond will likely hit this temp before end of November, so the winter should give us a hard reset. But if you live in a warmer climate, you're SOL because some snails can live 15 years in the right conditions!

But if the snails all die then why each year do I still have snails? I don't know about the temps for all snails here in the P.N.W but I would not assume they would die due to the cold here.
I just found this:

Quick Notes about Pond Snails​

Name	Pond snail
Common names	The Great Pond snail, The Giant Pond snail
Scientific name	Lymnaea stagnalis
Tank size (minimal)	1-gallon (~5 liters)
Keeping	Very easy
Breeding	Very easy
Size	2.5 – 7 cm (1 – 3 inches)
Temperature	0 to 33 C (~32°F – 90°F)
Optimal PH	6,5 – 8 (6 – 9)
Optimal GH	4 – 8 (0 – 30)
Optimal KH	2 – 8 (0 – 25)
TDS (optimal)	150 – 250 (50 – 500)
Nitrate	Less than 100 ppm
Diet	Omnivore / Algae eater
Temperament	Peaceful. Solitary
Life span	up to 3 years
Color Form	Brownish

 

[GBBUDD]

In all seriousness with the hair / string algae. I have found myself renting space from one of the best pond stores I know of. It's in NY NY and they had just built a couple display ponds.
Well two weeks ago I noticed the hair algae getting a bit heavy but being a new pond it was no surprise. Well I went to the display the other night and there was a drastic reduction in the algae.

When I asked what they were doing I got the answer of barley straw extract per an aquadoser by Aquascapes. Now they have the large version that has room for two jugs and the second jug appeared to have Aquascapes additive called "Maintenance"

And to my surprise last night when I walked up to the pond I found the hair algae was all but gone only a healthy coating of peach fuzz algae could be seen. I looked around for pressure washing streaks or vacuuming and there was neither.
Wish I had tried it after all when I had started 7 years ago now. They crazy thing was it didn't just break off as it was not seen floating in the water or piled up at the base of the negative edge.

 

[Pablo]

But if the snails all die then why each year do I still have snails? I don't know about the temps for all snails here in the P.N.W but I would not assume they would die due to the cold here.
I just found this:

Quick Notes about Pond Snails​

Name	Pond snail
Common names	The Great Pond snail, The Giant Pond snail
Scientific name	Lymnaea stagnalis
Tank size (minimal)	1-gallon (~5 liters)
Keeping	Very easy
Breeding	Very easy
Size	2.5 – 7 cm (1 – 3 inches)
Temperature	0 to 33 C (~32°F – 90°F)
Optimal PH	6,5 – 8 (6 – 9)
Optimal GH	4 – 8 (0 – 30)
Optimal KH	2 – 8 (0 – 25)
TDS (optimal)	150 – 250 (50 – 500)
Nitrate	Less than 100 ppm
Diet	Omnivore / Algae eater
Temperament	Peaceful. Solitary
Life span	up to 3 years
Color Form	Brownish

And I have the Japanese Trapdoor snails and I know those are supposed to survive the winter, I just put them in the Spring so will see how they do this coming winter. They have been great so far, they do a great job and fun to watch.

 

[GBBUDD]

J dog3rd

And I have the Japanese Trapdoor snails and I know those are supposed to survive the winter, I just put them in the Spring so will see how they do this coming winter. They have been great so far, they do a great job and fun to watch.

Sounds like watching golf but they have to walk and carry their own bag at a snails pace

 

[Jhn]

Oh the swimers itch was a parasite ! I just though the cousins had come over for a swim and left something like a baby ruth.

I guess that's what happens when you don't keep up . 🕶

Translated your redneck cousins, took a dump in the pond.

Just keeping up with my newly appointed position.

 

[combatwombat]

I just though the cousins had come over for a swim and left something like a baby ruth.

Uh, what kind of cousins do you have, @GBBUDD?

That pond is impressive looking. New pond, lots of fish, no algae. I've had it beaten into my head here over the years that all these additives are unnecessary bandaids covering a problem that will solve itself once you have the right balance of water, filtration, and fish. So, hard to stomach the idea of switching to a dosing system. But I can be convinced!

I don't know about the temps for all snails here in the P.N.W but I would not assume they would die due to the cold here.

I think you're right, and that I should not necessarily make that assumption. I do keep reading, though, that swimmer's itch in public waters clears up as it gets colder. Could be many reasons for that, not necessarily that the snails died. I definitely do not have giant pond snails though. Ours are tiny and just seem to hang out inside the algae clumps.

But if the snails all die then why each year do I still have snails?

I'm no biologist, but I imagine they can repopulate. Perhaps birds bring them or their eggs. Or maybe eggs overwinter but the snails do not. These are just guesses. I have no idea. I do know that I did not put any snails in the pond and I have many snails, so they can certainly find their way in on their own. But you're absolutely right that I don't know enough to know for certain that they will die off this winter and my problem will go away.

 

[Hound Heaven]

Now I'm wondering - I never go in my pond so I wouldn't know if I have the "itch" here too maybe? And simply don't know it?? Sounds like it might be kind of common?

 

[Lisak1]

We actually think some sort of duck parasites took out about 3 dozen of our goldfish 5 years ago - the summer of the great die off. First time we ever had ducks... several weeks later fish are dying in droves. Correlation = causation maybe, but it sure was weird. A doze of prazi pro stopped the dying, so we just assumed we were right. Moral of the story - never welcome ducks to your pond.

UV sounds interesting for this issue - but doesn't UV only kill single cell organisms?

I've heard many have great success with barley straw extract - same idea as H2O2 though, so why not just use that? Although the extract seems preferable to the actual bale of rotting straw in your pond. BUT here's an idea - buy a bale of barley straw and make your own extract... hmmmm.

 

[combatwombat]

Here's where I'm really struggling. Adding fish to the pond keeps coming up as part of the solution to the problem. And I just STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND how adding bioload right now would help. Someone please hammer it through my thick skull.

I have lots of frogs that contribute to bio-load. Most of the plants—especially those in the bog seem to be doing well. Some of the Irises struggle. The lillies are underwhelming this year (no fertilizer added).

Currently, my water is testing at 0.25 ppm ammonia content. No nitrites or nitrates. To me, that says there is TOO MUCH bioload or not enough nitrifying bacteria, so the string algae has arrived to gobble up nutrients. But even all the string algae can't fix it because a small amount of ammonia is still present.

So, it seems to me that adding fish right now would make that worse instead of better. I am not opposed to adding fish. I want fish. But I really DON'T WANT to add fish, make things worse, and then have to figure out how to fix it with a bunch of fish I need to keep healthy at the same time.

So, if ya'll know something I don't and feel like I am still misunderstanding the situation, please educate me.

 

[combatwombat]

Moral of the story - never welcome ducks to your pond.

Got that right. Raccoons too.

UV sounds interesting for this issue - but doesn't UV only kill single cell organisms?

Good question. I don't think so?

I've heard many have great success with barley straw extract - same idea as H2O2 though, so why not just use that?

I think the benefit of barley straw is that it's cheaper, longer-lasting, and the dose is kind of self-regulating. If you use H2O2 in liquid form, you'd have to apply it regularly and make sure you're not using so much that you harm the fish.

I've also seen it mentioned that it can be difficult to impossible to apply it very far below the water's surface. So unless you're using a massive dose, the liquid never makes it to the bottom of the pond if you need it down there. Its oxidizing power runs out before it gets there. Vs. a bale of straw in the pond deliver's its offgas from the bottom up.

 

[addy1]

Wow I must have Alaska snails, they all survive the winter, water hits around 38f at times.

My trap doors are the size of golf balla.

 

[GBBUDD]

That pond is impressive looking. New pond, lots of fish, no algae. I've had it beaten into my head here over the years that all these additives are unnecessary bandaids covering a problem that will solve itself once you have the right balance of water, filtration, and fish. So, hard to stomach the idea of switching to a dosing system. But I can be convinced

No one is more anti snake oil than I but . It's hard to argue seeing g it first hand

 

[GBBUDD]

Uh, what kind of cousins do you have,


The kind that would take a bite to make sure a baby ruth wasn't wasted

 

[Pablo]

I think as far as answering the fish question it is not that fish will solve the algae problem. They are just one piece of the puzzle. You are correct that fish will provide nutrients. If you have too many fish then you would have a problem. But having a few will help your plants grow larger and starve out the algae. The algae are simple organisms so they do not need much to thrive. Plants need more help, so think of it more about helping your existing plants grow larger rather than just thinking it is adding bioload.
Combating the algae takes patience and finding balance in the pond. If I had to guess the ducks that you had last year or the year before started you down this path, the pond was too new to handle the waste the ducks were producing and you have been catching up ever since.
There is not going to be one solution to this. Yes, one thing might help control it short term but trying to prevent it in the first place takes balance. And you never really get rid of it completely, you hope to control it from getting too crazy.

https://pubs.nmsu.edu/_w/W103/