cant decide... goldfish and koi or just koi?

[Dirty Dawg]

Wow, lots of great input in this thread, as I'm currently in the same boat - what to go with for fish.

As far as Koi being hard on plants, exactly how hard are they? Maybe I shouldn't have gotten rid of so many plants, lol.

 

[Dave 54]

Most serious koi keepers in the Uk prefare to forgo any plans in the pond prefaring instead to concentrate on their lovely koi

Dave

 

[DOUBBLE TAP]

I vote Koi all the way. When I started out I got a bunch of shubis and serasas just to see if I could keep something alive on the cheap. Next season I pulled all but one of them and gave them to neighbor for her pond. I put in 10 koi and have watched them grow over the past 2 years and they are getting huge and have added more. Now my taste has been a bit more refined so I see myself switching out some of the original domestic koi for higher end koi as I find flaws with the current stock. I am contemplating removing all of my domestic koi and only keeping my jap imports and adding more high end imports. Don't get me wrong I loved my shubbies they are very pretty fish and grew big in the year and change that I had them but the only reason I wanted the pond in the first place was because of all of the colors and types and the size and personality of koi.

btw you don't have to spend crazy amounts of money to get high end koi. I buy them as imports 30-75 bucks 4-5 in. One of my favorite parts of koi keeping is growing them out and seeing them develop and transform. If I like the way they turn out great if not I get rid of them and try again. I figure that I got my moneys worth of enjoyment growing them out. I am trying to get good at knowing how they will turn out from seeing them small. Its a process that is more of an art than science but I will get there eventually. Sometimes I think it more of a curse than anything. I cant look at a fish with out picking it apart and seeing flaws. Sometimes I would just like to see a pretty fish and not have to be looking at a 10k showa or sanke that I will prob never own

What am I saying don't fall into the trap....Go for gold fish LOL

 

[fishin4cars]

My two cents on the topic. I don't recommend mixing the Koi and goldfish, or should I say I've learned that although they live together well, they also breed. Koi and goldfish hybrids can be decent looking fish, some points that are good are most will be sterile so you don't have to worry as much about generations of mix breedings. bad point is, hybrids of Goldfish and Koi don't go over well with more serious keepers. This is what really brought about so many haters when it came to butterfly Koi and why many shows don't allow butterfly Koi in their shows. This past year when Louisiana held it's first Koi and goldfish show we had TWO entries that the owners didn't know they had hybrids. One was entered as a Koi (The President of the club entered), turned out to be a hybrid the other was entered as a comet goldfish, (MINE!) Both were disqualified. Can you imagine showing in your first show and not knowing your entering a hybrid? Very embarrassing to say the least. I've owned my "Goldfish" for six years, started out a black longfin comet when purchased. Over the years it lost the black and slowly turned orange. I NEVER noticed the small barbell on it's right cheek/lip. The judge noticed it though and brought up a discussion about hybrids. This spring and summer I started removing all my goldfish from the koi ponds and putting them in ponds of their own. I still haven't gotten them all moved but it's a thought to think about.

When deciding on mixing Koi and plants. If your determined to keep koi and plants I suggest Butterfly or longfin fish for best beginner introductions. My personal experience has shown that short fin koi dig for roots, and the bigger they get the more a koi will dig, but long fins just cant seem to get the power to dig like standards can. To me the best plants for standard koi are the ones that can grow roots in the water column without being eaten. That list isn't the easiest to come up with due to some plants won't grow in one area and will in another, also some koi eat some rooted plants and not all koi will eat roots, so it's another you never know deal. My rambling is done, so back to the regular program.

 

[Lisaebetten]

Have you gone to see Moose Miller on 2nd Street in Kalamazoo? He is a nice guy and will feed the fish while your there, just call and he will keep you entertained. 7 large man made ponds with tons of koi and shubs. He sells cheap also!!! He is an older retired man with thousands of fish!!!

http://koiandbluegills.com/

 

[crsublette]

My two cents on the topic. I don't recommend mixing the Koi and goldfish, or should I say I've learned that although they live together well, they also breed. Koi and goldfish hybrids can be decent looking fish, some points that are good are most will be sterile so you don't have to worry as much about generations of mix breedings. bad point is, hybrids of Goldfish and Koi don't go over well with more serious keepers. This is what really brought about so many haters when it came to butterfly Koi and why many shows don't allow butterfly Koi in their shows. This past year when Louisiana held it's first Koi and goldfish show we had TWO entries that the owners didn't know they had hybrids. One was entered as a Koi (The President of the club entered), turned out to be a hybrid the other was entered as a comet goldfish, (MINE!) Both were disqualified. Can you imagine showing in your first show and not knowing your entering a hybrid? Very embarrassing to say the least. I've owned my "Goldfish" for six years, started out a black longfin comet when purchased. Over the years it lost the black and slowly turned orange. I NEVER noticed the small barbell on it's right cheek/lip. The judge noticed it though and brought up a discussion about hybrids. This spring and summer I started removing all my goldfish from the koi ponds and putting them in ponds of their own. I still haven't gotten them all moved but it's a thought to think about.

When deciding on mixing Koi and plants. If your determined to keep koi and plants I suggest Butterfly or longfin fish for best beginner introductions. My personal experience has shown that short fin koi dig for roots, and the bigger they get the more a koi will dig, but long fins just cant seem to get the power to dig like standards can. To me the best plants for standard koi are the ones that can grow roots in the water column without being eaten. That list isn't the easiest to come up with due to some plants won't grow in one area and will in another, also some koi eat some rooted plants and not all koi will eat roots, so it's another you never know deal. My rambling is done, so back to the regular program.

Larkin, I've always wondered about this and thanks for clearing it up. I found it quite interesting.

Do you think it possible that a ponderer could only start out with one female Koi and one male goldfish?

I understand that buying according to gender is easy for koi once they're around 2~3 years old, but I am not for sure on how easy it is to determine goldfish's gender.

I was thinking this would be an easy way to control goldfish population since all of the hybrid fish would be sterile and only the original female Koi and original male goldfish would be the ones actually reproducing.

To Larkin or anyone that would know...

What ya think?

 

[fishin4cars]

Charles, I am not convinced that hybrids are sterile. I've read it and understand the thought on this but honestly, I feel it's another one of those debates of, is it fact or myth. I've witnessed some pretty strange crossings over the years and on at least one occasion could not explain why I got fry if Hyrbrids were sterile. That's all that were in that pond when fry were discovered. Sexing mature goldfish is really no more difficult than sexing Koi. @ 1-2 years old you can vent them just as you can Koi, the gill plates also are easier to identify sex on with goldfish than they are with Koi. of course most add fish when they are young and then all bets off, Who knows what sex they are adding of either type.