Can either koi or shubunkin goldfish mate with plecostomus?

[brandonsdad02]

Cichlids don't to well in cold temps either. I found out last fall when I sold my tank inside when I got the pond finished and put everything outside. They got really big and colorful but once the water hit 50*, they were belly up.

 

[Lola]

Regarding depth of pond and koi. My husband said that the one end of the pond is 2 feet deep. As to the koi itself, the man that gave it to us said that he was tearing down his aquarium and did not know what to do with the koi. As we rescue animals of all sizes and species, the koi was just another one of God's creatures that we gave a home. I hope that clears up why we have a koi in a pond that is 18 to 24" deep.

 

[don't ask]

Regarding depth of pond and koi. My husband said that the one end of the pond is 2 feet deep. As to the koi itself, the man that gave it to us said that he was tearing down his aquarium and did not know what to do with the koi. As we rescue animals of all sizes and species, the koi was just another one of God's creatures that we gave a home. I hope that clears up why we have a koi in a pond that is 18 to 24" deep.

Lola, the goldfish and koi can survive in 18-24 inches of water in winter.. The reason people say go deeper is to err on the safe side as winters can be up and down...and precaution as to water possibly freezing to that depth..also a koi will grow larger than goldfish and the added/extra depth and space which might be needed..very kind hearted of you and your husband to do that or he might have done who knows what to the fish

 

[CountryEscape]

Welcome, Lola. I'm glad Fishin added that plecos can survive below 70, as I had one in last summer, thought it could stay year round, then had to remove it. Put it in at about 5", and 3 months later removed it and it was over 11" long . So, keep that in mind if you have the common type that grow really fast. I put in an albino this late spring (since it was so darn warm here already in March) and had it in an aquarium since last summer trying to "grow it up", but it was still only about 2" long. I think it has grown another inch, but still growing very slowly.
As far as the colors, it's very possible, maybe likely, that the gray fish are cross with the goldfish and koi. That's why I separated my koi and goldfish this year with a second pond. Well ... mostly separated them, still have a few stragglers to catch. I've found with my goldfish and shubunkins that the babies are born either red/white/black or solid red or solid black. The solid black ones will change to solid orange/red, usually the first year, but I had 2 that were still black this spring and one just this week changed to orange, and the other's belly is now orange, so he/she is changing. The red/white/black ones tend to stay more the same from little on, although my fish tend to lose their black markings. I have some really pretty red and white goldies, though.
The main thing, enjoy your fish. Yes, 18-24" is borderline depth for koi or goldfish if you plan to leave them outside, you have to worry about freezing too deep in winter, but you can use an air stone to keep hole open all the time. Heater is best used occasionally, because of the cost factor. You can also remove tube from a small pump and place it so it shoots the water straight up to the surface, thus keeping the surface area open for oxygen to exchange. I used the pump shooting the water straight up last winter, and didn't even keep that on all the time. If it froze over, I used heater on top (be careful it doesn't spin and burn the cord though!) to thaw through the ice, then the water pressure from underneath to melt it the rest of the way. Just need to have an opening at least once a week. BUT, if you get deep freeze/frost near you, THAT's when you may have a problem being only 18" deep on the one end.
Another factor, is your pond completely underground, or is it partially above ground? If it's somewhat above ground, you have to figure how much of the depth is below ground level, as the part above ground may freeze quicker and deeper than the part below ground. Either way, GOOD LUCK!

 

[Lola]

Hi CE,

Ok, I think that some of the grey babies may be the iridescent shark tropicals because of the dorsal fin. The other babies seem to be a mix of shubunkin and koi. They move so darn fast that as of now I do not have any pictures of them. I do have a new camera that leaves me deep in the learning process of its operation.

At any rate, I will be bringing in for the winter, at least three plecos approximately 5 inches long. Can anyone give me input as to what size aquarium to purchase and what extra things I may need? I raised tropicals years ago and remember some of the basics but I am sure that things have changed.

As to the "heater" for the pond, we were considering the same type of heater that we use in the water trough for the horses. Thoughts?? As we have a waterfall, do we need aeration of another type also?

Thank you all for your help.

Lola

 

[capewind]

Buying fishtanks LOOK good, but they can be pricey. If you have a basement or garage to use, I would get a 60" plastic kiddie pool for $10-15 ...full, this size kiddie pool will hold 100 gallons of water... screw 5-6 sheet rock screws down in the rim to hold deer netting to make sure no one jumps out... I can post a pic if you need one... have 3 set up right now LOL. With a bit of trimming at the pools edge, you can also stick an old aqua clear type filter (the type that hangs off the back of a fish tank) onto the kiddie pool, or an in tank style filter... or no filter at all if you want to run a small air pump and just do regular water changes...

 

[Lola]

Ummm... Sorry, no basement. We are, according to my husband, about 10 feet above sea level. Although, believe it or not, I have one of those pools that we use in the summer for our cats. I have a ten gallon aquarium but really think that will NOT be large enough. I figure if I start saving my pennies now, by autumn I should be able to get a larger tank. I am a thrift shop addict and putchased the 10 gallon for $2. I really do like your idea though. Thank you.

 

[Lola]

My apology to CountryEscape. Our pond is completely underground.

 

[capewind]

LOL... My foundation sits literally 2' above water/sea level (located on Cape Cod)... was determined to have a basement when we built the new house. We have a 750 gallon quarantine pond in the basement, my kiddie pools are actually in my kitchen, but figure most wouldnt go for that LOL.

I wouldnt dare go as small as a ten gallon for ONE 5" pleco, for more than a week or two for a quarantine or treatment tank... just not big enough, not to mention, they still have a lot of growing to do...

 

[Lola]

Thoughts on a 25 gallon...

 

[capewind]

Not too favorable thoughts here... I was going to suggest possibly a 40 gallon breeder tank (18" x 36" x 12 "H) but thought that would be really pushing it for so many. MAYBE they might do ok, but even back in our days of fish tanks (started with a 5 gallon with one very fat pleco, ended with a 180 gallon marine/reef) and my own habit of overcrowding, it is really pushing the limits. You could probably get away with it with a couple of filters and weekly water changes, but if the water quality goes bad, it can happen fast and you would be up sh*ts creek in a hurry. At their present size, it would be tight, and they still have growing to do yet... Maybe others will have container ideas that take up less room than a kiddie pool, but will still give them a bit of room...

 

[CountryEscape]

Lola, sorry, I've been on vacation, just got back on-line. The 25 or 29/30 gal size aquarium will do fine for your 3 plecos. No need to get something huge for what you want for the winter only, then planning to put them back into the pond.
FYI, I had a 6" pleco I put in my pond last summer, it grew to 12" or more (went side to side and then an inch on a 3.5 gal bucket). Sold it, as I didn't want to put it into my 29 high gal aquarium which I had set up for tropical. I now have a very small albino pleco in the goldfish pond, and he has not grown at all like the larger common type, so it's maybe 3". It will have to come in, and will go into my 55 gal tropical aquarium. I bought a 55 gal for $45 on Craigs List, so watch for them, people have them all the time really cheap.
As far as filtration, use normal type of aquarium filtration. Although plecos DO produce more waste than most tropical fish, they don't produce any more than goldfish, so not sure why Capewind is suggesting such a large container for 3 - 5" fish. Once you get the water bacteria started (BTW, you can use your pond water to get it seeded, if that is all you will have in the tank ...), there should not be much in the way of water changes. I have a 55 gal with about 15 fish ranging from large angels (2), killifish, assorted plecos (3) and cory cats (5), platys, rummy nose tetras and another tetra type, and 4 or 5 loaches. I do vacuum the bottom only about once a month, when I add water when the level gets low. I'm a firm believer that if you have the correct bacteria going, water changes are not as necessary. However, that being said, I know most do much more often water changes, and it's needed. My water is crystal clear, anad have not lost any fish in a very long time.
So ... if all you are looking for is a place to house the 5" plecos, a 30 gal would be plenty in my opinion. If you are looking for cheap, find any type of tote for cheap, set up some type of hang-on-the-back filter and you're set. Or, use bubbler, and vacuum the waste from the bottom once every week or two. Voila.
I had a kiddie pool in my basement last winter, as I purchased 14 small koi (4-6") and didn't want to put them outside in December when they were delivered. It worked well, looked very rinky dink, but all that mattered is that it worked.
And, I'm pretty sure plecos are not prone to jump, but maybe others have had them jump. They tend to be bottom dwellers. Now, if you put koi in a shallow kiddie pool like I did, they definitely need a net for the first few days when they are likely to jump from fright. Once they settled down, the net came off and I never lost one.
Good luck!!!

 

[j.w]

Welcome back CE and hope ya had fun!

 

[capewind]

Hi Country... I was thinking from the perspective that they are still growing and are dirtier than the average tropicals, and ongoing maintenance. My first thought was a kiddie pool, as they are cheap and work great, but they dont have the room for it.

 

[CometKeith]

hi lola, good luck with your pond, plecos, and indoor aquarium. The issue with Koi is they get two feet or longer. I'm not sure how big your pond is but usually they are not suited for any pond under 1000 gallons otherwise the waste they produce will be lethal to any fish in a pond that has a standard type filtration system.