Building a new pond - so many questions

[tbendl]

I think that's an awesome choice from what I've heard Koi are kinda the big pains of the fish world. I am curious why the bottom drain though? From reading, most people opt to not install them as they add potential leak issues and don't have as many benefits as going without.

 

[LoganinMD]

Hmm, ok. I guess the first website we read Tom Burton's - had said be sure to put in a bottom drain, and most of the larger ponds seem to have one. We will be doing a nice big bog. We have a lot of trees surrounding our lot - so there are a ton of leaves. Would a skimmer be sufficient? It certainly seems easier than bottom drain and settling chamber.

 

[Lisak1]

I think it all comes down to whether you are building a KOI pond or a GARDEN pond. A dedicated koi pond requires a different set up than an eco-system pond. Decide which way you want to go and your questions will be easier to answer.

 

[addy1]

I have two apple trees, one huge maple right near the pond and down wind from every other tree in the neighborhood. I just net them out in the fall.

 

[LoganinMD]

LisaK, we are planning a pond with goldfish / shubunkins, shelves for some pond plants, and a large bog. No Koi.

We really do get a ton of leaves, on three sides we neighbor a State Forest, so our yard is ringed with tall oaks and tulip poplars. I have many loads of leaves to take care of each spring and fall - thankfully I can dump them back over the hill into the woods, and don't need to bag them - but I don't want to plan on us netting them each fall. We wouldn't be able to keep up with it. The system will need to do as much for us as possible.

We would prefer not to have to build a bottom drain, concerned about leaks etc. But I need to be sure the system will be able to handle the deluge of leaves.
Perhaps we could install a skimmer (or two?) that we only need to turn on when the leaves start falling?

 

[Lisak1]

I know nothing about bottom drains but I've never had the impression that they would handle leaves, especially in large quantities. Someone with more experience can help you with that.

But if you are planning a goldfish pond, a bottom drain is certainly not a requirement. And a skimmer will definitely help clear the leaves and other debris off the pond surface. Is there any reason you wouldn't want to run a skimmer all the time? I think you would find that a skimmer does a lot to keep your pond surface sparkling.

 

[addy1]

Your best bet might be put up a leaf net when they start falling.

 

[haver79]

Welcome and sounds like a wonderful family endeavor.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Bottom drains are the underwater version of skimmers, both of them remove debris automatically from your pond, one removes surface debris, the other removes the stuff on the bottom. You don't NEED a skimmer, you can just scoop the junk off the surface manually with a net, and you don't NEED a bottom drain, you can just scoop junk off the bottom of your pond manually with a net. The same goes for swimming pools, you don't NEED skimmers or bottom drains, but practically all pools have them, you just have to think about why that is to understand why you might want to install both of them on your pond.
If you really screw up when installing a skimmer there is a chance that your pond could leak, same goes for a bottom drain, but I really don't think that is at all a good reason not to install them. The truth is, most pond leaks develop around waterfalls, so if you are really worried about leaks, don't ever think about building a waterfall.
I've installed a bottom drain and they are no harder then any other pond plumbing. My current pond has a bottom drain, and I've had ponds without bottom drains systems, and I much prefer with then without. You'll find it is people who have never had bottom drains ponds who usually don't have much good to say about them, or at the very least are filled with uncertainty about them.
A general rule of thumb is that you'll want to try and turn over your pond water at least once every hour, so you are going to want either a 6,000 gph pumps, or two 3,000 gph pumps. Or some combination of pumps that works out to at least 6,000 gph. I have a 2,000 gallon pond and turn the water over at 3,500 gph with two pumps. A smaller one for my skimmer, and a larger one for the bottom drain system.

 

[LoganinMD]

All our original ideas are being turned on their head! So glad we came here for help!

At this point, we are looking at this skimmer
http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Supplies/Pond-Skimmers/Big-Bahama-Skimmer-PS4600-6-Weir
- unless we should be considering something different?

6000 gallons
no bottom drain
no koi, just goldfish, etc
a nice big bog

Would we be able to use one pump - put it in the skimmer and then feed that to the bog?
Perhaps a pump like this one which fits inside the skimmer
http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Supplies/Flows-4000-6500-GPH/ProLine-6600-GPH-Skimmer-Pump

Do you envisage this working?

 

[CountryEscape]

You will leave the skimmer on year round, not just for leaves. Other things will blow into the pond during the year, and sometimes algae floats to the surface, and the skimmer will catch it. In the fall, if you don't have a net as Addy suggests (elevated above the pond, hanging to the ground, to help deflect most of the leaves elsewhere besides your pond), you will be cleaning out the skimmer basket daily, if not several times a day. And, you will still have to net the bottom in the fall, and probably again in the spring. I have 2 large elm trees 100' or more from my ponds, and a couple of soft maples maybe 50' from the ponds. One pond is elevated about 12" from ground level, the other about 6". Winds blow most of my leaves into the fields, but some end up in the ponds. It's easy to net them out. Its something you will need to keep in mind for upkeep. It doesn't take long, and is something to do couple of times of the year. Summertime will be less maintenance, once the pond has had time to cycle.

 

[Alpravinosh]

I would say to have a skimmer or two to remove the leaves that fall in would be much more advisable than two let the leaves go to your filter.

 

[Alpravinosh]

To add on I would say that if you have a 6000 gallon pond you should probably take a pump that turns 8000 gallons of water per hour. This will help the flow of water to your filter and hence improve water quality and may also aid in providing more oxygen into the pond since your not adding aeration.

 

[LoganinMD]

I would appreciate some feedback on this possible goldfish pond design.
Length about 23 ft, average width about 12 ft depth 3ft.

thinking of this skimmer
http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Supplies/Pond-Skimmers/Big-Bahama-Skimmer-PS4600-6-Weir

with possibly this external pump somewhere between the skimmer and the bog
http://www.watergarden.org/Pond-Supplies/Flows-over-6500-GPH/Sequence-8800SEQ22-Pump

The bog can be bigger if needed
we are hoping to channel the water from the bog into a little waterfall - only about one foot high

does this provide sufficient circulation?
will it be ok to only skim water off the top - would be bottom of the pond get full of nasties, ammonia etc.
should the bog rather be fed by a submersible pump?

thanks for all your comments so far - everything has been very helpful

 

[Alpravinosh]

The pump is great. But I feel it should sit inside the skimmer for efficient water intake into the skimmer, and since it has a high head the power should be enough to send the water to your bog filter. Therefore the skimmer you have chosen maybe a bit to small, as in the specification it is stated for 2000 - 4000 gph pumps. But then again this is just my idea, it's all up to you. I would definately prefer if you get a stationary in pond skimmer just to remove the leaves and have a submersible pump. Since your pump is an 8000 gph your circulation should be just fine, just ensure that you have a high enough waterfall to provide the all important oxygen as well as to provide the force needed to push the debry towards the pump.
Hope this is of great help.