Bottom drain help

[CliffandJoann]

In our opinion a BD is the single most important thing you could do for a large pond, everything else
you can add later...

We have a totally DIY system...Read about it here, in our "pond plans and diagrams"
if your still interested, I'll explain furthur.

http://backyardpond..../untitled1.html

 

[fishin4cars]

I have been following this thread, I do not have a BD in my pond now (Wish I did thoough!) but I do want one or two in my next build. I'll chime in if I see anything that looks like bad advice, right now this has been intresting to follow and I hope Waterbug chimes in more. I have read that a bottom drain is best utilized if it's not directly in-line with a pump. It should have a settlement chamber to catch the poop and muck before being mixed up by a pump into a slurry. I'm planning on using a Seive filter or rotordrum after the settlement chamber when I do my next build but like you, This is all new so I'm still learning as well. I'm not in a big hurry to build a BIGGER pond just yet. LOL

 

[KennethO]

Same fishin. Planning the next build and would like to add some additions.

For the muck to be forced to the drain more, then a steeper floor slope would help too. An aereated BD cleans about an 8 ft diameter area. If you had it slope 1ft for every 10ft then that would definitely be better than if it was installed on a flat bottom for example. TPR's and having water push stuff towards the drains helps a ton.

 

[CliffandJoann]

Ya know fishin, I've heard many a ponder saying they wish they had a BD, but never heard one
say, they wish they didn't have a BD.

Our system is gravity fed, the water goes into the filter tubs by gravity...in our case,
if something should happen to the
pumping system or the tubs ...the water cannot drop in the pond more than 3 to 4 inches,
which is the elevation of the inlet into the filter tubs in relation to the water level of the pond.


If you looked at our diagram, the water exits the pond and goes through three seperate
filter tubs that are daisy chained together, each filter tub is divided into sections with various filter material that traps the poop
and muck. After the water goes through the last filter tub, it exits the tub and travels 18'
under ground and enters the biological pond. The water travels through the bio pond --
getting scrubbed by the vegetation in it's path...it then exits the bio pond and again travels
underground 18' and re-enters the pond from under the small wood dock in the back...then the process
starts all over again 24/7.
The filter material gets cleaned every 7 to 10 days...the water and fish poop gets bailed out
at that time and used to fertilize all the plants and flowers in the garden and around the pond.

Like I said, the BD is the single most important thing you can do for your pond, everything else
you can do later...also we only use our skimmer in early spring and fall because of the trees
and leaves. All summer the skimmer is off, the BD does the job.

We only have a 3" drain, we recommend a 4" drain for the BD.

 

[Nakish66]

Check out tpr's for circulation in your pond.

http://www.fancykoio.../supply/tpr.htm

My current bottom drain looks a lot like yours Nakish, been running for a while with no issues. I do have a leaf basket between the drain and the pump to catch any big stuff. It does not keep the bottom sparkly clean, but there is not a real collection of muck to worry about. My pond does slope to the lowest point, the junk does migrate down there. It goes from 2 feet to 5 feet. When I go into groom the lilies there is some muck, minimal. My arizona pond has a retro fit bottom drain, it did not suck well like he is saying, but I would sweep the muck towards the drain, and clean the leaf basket.

Your pipe is off the bottom by two inches, I doubt you are sucking in stuff that will clog it, unless the muck is two inches deep. Do you have a leaf basket before your pump?

I have a preformance pro pump and it has a big removable basket actually made inside the pump that catches big leaves and stuff. the bottom of my pond has a little debris down there , but not a build up of stuff. I did use a shop vac once and ran it across the bottom and there was not that much stuff down there. I also drop a sump pump to the bottom once in a while and stir it up a few times and run the water through a laundry basket with some quilt batting after 2 hours the bottom and the pond are good to go. I can always see straight to the bottom of my pond and the entire thing is 4 ft deep. It has a tint to it from tannings from my purple plum tree that sits right over the pond. I was using activated carbon and it would take the color away, but I have not bought anymore and as long as it clear even with the tint it doesn't bother me. I just always read that a lot of pond owners that don't have a BD say if I was to do it all over again they would put one in, so I guess I thought I have the chance now.

 

[Nakish66]

How much debris do you have on the bottom? I have used that style of what I call baffle(1 1/2" pvc with holes drilled in) with a mag drive 18 pump with no problems. Yes if you have alot of large debris it could clog the holes but if its that bad you have other issues. Your skimmer should catch most of the large debris before it sinks. I agree with Waterbug that having water movement will greatly reduce the ammount of settlement on the bottom. And I often think about a malfunction with my bottom pickup and my pond draining.

I don't think I have a lot of debis on the bottom. I do have stuff down there,but it is not a lot. I definitely get some leaves because I have a tree close to the pond. I don't have a skimmer built in either . That's something else i'm going to have to put in, I learned about all this stuff after the pond was built. I did have a guy that was helping me that has three huge ponds in his back yard with huge koi and he has no BD or skimmer, so maybe that's why he didn't bother telling me I needed one. I skim the leaves daily with a net, but because I'm not out there all day I'm sure some make it to the bottom. My pump does have a skimmer basket as the first station built in, but that water is being pulled from the bottom of the pond, so I definitely need something for the top. My water quality is great! My pond has finally found a great balance. I have no ammonia, nitrites, or even nitrates. I only have algae on my waterfall rocks, but none in the water and that is without the UV light on. I have a lot of plants and a lot of coverage. I just want to make maintenance as easy as possible to keep everything balanced and if a BD and a skimmer helps I'm all for it!! I will definitely implement better water movement on the bottom! Thank you so much for the help this site is awesome!

 

[Nakish66]

In our opinion a BD is the single most important thing you could do for a large pond, everything else
you can add later...

We have a totally DIY system...Read about it here, in our "pond plans and diagrams"
if your still interested, I'll explain furthur.

http://backyardpond..../untitled1.html

Off to read :razz: !! Thank you for the great information, please keep it coming.

 

[Nakish66]

I have been following this thread, I do not have a BD in my pond now (Wish I did thoough!) but I do want one or two in my next build. I'll chime in if I see anything that looks like bad advice, right now this has been intresting to follow and I hope Waterbug chimes in more. I have read that a bottom drain is best utilized if it's not directly in-line with a pump. It should have a settlement chamber to catch the poop and muck before being mixed up by a pump into a slurry. I'm planning on using a Seive filter or rotordrum after the settlement chamber when I do my next build but like you, This is all new so I'm still learning as well. I'm not in a big hurry to build a BIGGER pond just yet. LOL

That's why I'm so focused on getting everything right this time, because we don't want to ever have to do it again.......LOL!! This first build has definitely taught us a lot!! I would not trade this learning experience for the world! This pond and the koi have become such a place of peace for us!

 

[Nakish66]

In our opinion a BD is the single most important thing you could do for a large pond, everything else
you can add later...

We have a totally DIY system...Read about it here, in our "pond plans and diagrams"
if your still interested, I'll explain furthur.

http://backyardpond..../untitled1.html

I see that you are from Long Island! I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY. I'm in the Air Force so that's how we ended up on the west coast. Still go home at least once or twice a year. I have a lot of family in LI.

 

[fishin4cars]

You would be surprised at how much waste a pond produces in a day. I have prefilters in my skimmer that catch about 70-80% of what's in the water column before getting to the filter. I have to clean pretty much twice a day, and it's a lot. I recently visited a koi pond that just installed a cetus sieve filter, the water runs through a 4" BD to a catch basin, fromthere to the sieve and then to a VERY nice Koi filter system made by a specialty Koi Company. VERY NICE set up! He has a 6500 gallon pond, two fine filters one large bio filter one settlement chamber 1- 4" BD and pumping a total of 9500gph through his system, there were 18 koi ranging from 12" - 30" he's removing aprox. 1/2-1 # of solid waste a day. I was like DANG! That's a lot of poop!

 

[addy1]

Always heard koi are poop machines! gf and shubies do the same but not the the extent those koi do dodo

 

[Nakish66]

You would be surprised at how much waste a pond produces in a day. I have prefilters in my skimmer that catch about 70-80% of what's in the water column before getting to the filter. I have to clean pretty much twice a day, and it's a lot. I recently visited a koi pond that just installed a cetus sieve filter, the water runs through a 4" BD to a catch basin, fromthere to the sieve and then to a VERY nice Koi filter system made by a specialty Koi Company. VERY NICE set up! He has a 6500 gallon pond, two fine filters one large bio filter one settlement chamber 1- 4" BD and pumping a total of 9500gph through his system, there were 18 koi ranging from 12" - 30" he's removing aprox. 1/2-1 # of solid waste a day. I was like DANG! That's a lot of poop!

WOW.........You are right, I would have never thought they make that much waste!! What exactly is a sieve?

 

[j.w]

Oh fishin "That's a lot of crap!" :razz:

 

[KennethO]

Sieve is like a vary fine screen that water passes threw. The ultra fine screens catch even the smallest particles. Check YouTube, some are on there. You would want to filter as much large solids out before it to reduce how often you clean them.

 

[CliffandJoann]

Wow fishin' I'm impressed...your fish are gorgeous. really...
my head groundskeeper was looking
over my shoulder at your fish -- and now he wants a red one...LOL see what you started!
Too bad you don't live closer, I'd be over with a net!

The frogs are a hoot...we haven't had a frog in several years...we think it is cause our
fish are too big and friendly and scare off the frogs.
You said you have a seperate pond for frogs, good ideas.

.