Before I tear up concrete, is there any other option?

[texmaster]

Hi folks,

I posted a few months ago what I thought was a leak and now its confirmed. The problem is where I believe it is. Under concrete and stone at the back of the skimmer.

Quickly, I had a company come in and concrete in my pond and run some new lines. But as far as the skimmer was concerned, they lowered it in the ground to make room for the stone only. They never disconnected the line to the skimmer which at the time made me nervous. Fast forward a few months and I began to see the water draining out faster than I could fill it in. Over time it got worse and worse so I began to run tests. One, turn off both the drain and skimmer pump and see how the water level did. Barely a change. Ran the bottom drain only, again barely a change. Ran the skimmer pump alone and holy crap I lost inches within a few hours. Now I had the company come back and dig up the connections in the back of the pond where the skimmer line connects and there was no leak so I'm forced to believe the leak is behind the skimmer.

Unless someone can come up with a better idea its going to cost me at least 1000 bucks because the company is refusing to take responsibility claiming it was "my design" as if that's an excuse for a hose coming lose they worked on but no one else will come out any cheaper because some of the stone has to be removed to get to the back and fix the connection assuming that's where it is.

Here are some pics

 

[Meyer Jordan]

It will be a real kick in the teeth if after tearing out the concrete you discover that the leak is not in that location. But, as you have described it, you really have no other option.
Best of luck.

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
? Where you there when they ran/hooked up the new lines
What size is this line
Is it solid pipe like pvc or abs when they did the curves did use elbows or bended curves.
You might be able to have a guy come out and scope it that way he can tell you yes this is the leaky line and it is 5 feet from here.
At least you will be sure it is this line and you might not have to tear out all the stone work.

Ruben

 

[Meyer Jordan]

On a side note: I noticed that this appears to be a Helix skimmer. How do you like it?

 

[Waterbug]

I'm not sure I really understand, but it looks like this is mortared stone, no concrete pad?

I assume the entire skimmer hose is under stone? If not you can dig and expose whatever you can to see what you can.

You can of course just go without a skimmer which I assume isn't your preference.

You could add a retro fit skimmer which would probably mean adding a submersible pump putting the electric thru the current skimmer (there seems to be power there). Might be kind of ugly, not sure.

I'd fix it myself, not sure that's an option for you. Bottom line is it looks like some amount of stone has to be removed. Chisel the mortar to loosen, this is a tap tap tap deal with a smallish hammer rather than a massive see how hard you can hit it thing. Depends on how it was built but mortar is generally petty easy to bust out. You can also rent an electric chisel. Take out how ever much you need to find the leak and fix it. Mortaring the stone back is pretty easy too, or hire a mason.

If this is really a hose and not pipe I'd switch to pipe. Most hoses don't last very long and connections are often poor. I wouldn't put a hose under mortared stone or concrete because have to assume it'll have to be worked on.

 

[MitchM]

Sounds pretty frustrating, Texmaster.
Sorry to hear.

 

[Lisak1]

I wouldn't put a hose under mortared stone or concrete because have to assume it'll have to be worked on

I was going to suggest the same - putting stone over the plumbing seems like an invitation for trouble at some point.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I was going to suggest the same - putting stone over the plumbing seems like an invitation for trouble at some point.

Yet it is common practice in residential and commercial construction.

 

[texmaster]

Hello
? Where you there when they ran/hooked up the new lines
What size is this line
Is it solid pipe like pvc or abs when they did the curves did use elbows or bended curves.
You might be able to have a guy come out and scope it that way he can tell you yes this is the leaky line and it is 5 feet from here.
At least you will be sure it is this line and you might not have to tear out all the stone work.

Ruben

Its flex pvc 1.5 It was connected about 2 years before they came.

 

[texmaster]

On a side note: I noticed that this appears to be a Helix skimmer. How do you like it?

I love it. Its been a great skimmer.

 

[texmaster]

I'm not sure I really understand, but it looks like this is mortared stone, no concrete pad?

I assume the entire skimmer hose is under stone? If not you can dig and expose whatever you can to see what you can.

You can of course just go without a skimmer which I assume isn't your preference.

You could add a retro fit skimmer which would probably mean adding a submersible pump putting the electric thru the current skimmer (there seems to be power there). Might be kind of ugly, not sure.

I'd fix it myself, not sure that's an option for you. Bottom line is it looks like some amount of stone has to be removed. Chisel the mortar to loosen, this is a tap tap tap deal with a smallish hammer rather than a massive see how hard you can hit it thing. Depends on how it was built but mortar is generally petty easy to bust out. You can also rent an electric chisel. Take out how ever much you need to find the leak and fix it. Mortaring the stone back is pretty easy too, or hire a mason.

If this is really a hose and not pipe I'd switch to pipe. Most hoses don't last very long and connections are often poor. I wouldn't put a hose under mortared stone or concrete because have to assume it'll have to be worked on.

I just dont have the time. 2 kids I work from 6am and get off around 5 to 6 at night.

But most importantly I have no experience with stone. Some with concrete, basic footers and such but that's about it.

This is also reinforced with rebar.

They did say they want to replace the line with solid pvc instead of this flex stuff.

 

[Lisak1]

Yet it is common practice in residential and commercial construction

Yup. I just would avoid it if it was something I felt I may need to gain access to at some point.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Yup. I just would avoid it if it was something I felt I may need to gain access to at some point.

Agreed.

 

[herzausstahl]

Its flex pvc 1.5 It was connected about 2 years before they came.

It is true flex pvc right? As in you can GLUE fittings to it, not just clamp them on? I have this all over my ponds & it's pretty tough stuff. I've even glanced off it with a shovel while digging without breaking through. Handles freeze/thaws where I'd have to worry about schedule 40 pvc breaking. Is there any way to check connection points for leaks before having the company dig it up? Will they give you any garauntee the regular pipe won't crack in the same place the flex did?

 

[herzausstahl]

Yup. I just would avoid it if it was something I felt I may need to gain access to at some point.

And if they do redo the stonework maybe try to devise a way to allow yourself future access without having to tear it out again.