Assistance with New Filter Setup

[sissy]

no uv and never had one I just use plants in my filters but I do have to trim the roots .They suck up all the nutrients from feeding the fish .I use lava rock in my filters and use a crate with some quilt batting .I also only feed my fish 3 or 4 times a week .I have an aerator that is on a timer that comes on at night and hoses are in the filters .

 

[JohnHuff]

What is a moving bed filter? If it was my pond I would install a waterfall and put a nylon bag filed with lava rock in the waterfall.

It's a filter where instead of having static media, the media is moving.
In your scenario, the lava rock is the static media. But not all of the media will be receiving the same amount of contact with the water. Some of the lava rock may not even come into contact with water at all. Now imagine the lava rock cut into small, small pieces and moving around in a container. Each piece of lava rock will have the same amount of contact with the water. Add air to that, and you will maximize the ability of beneficial bacteria to convert toxic chemicals into less toxic ones.

 

[JohnHuff]

I forgot to mention that when a big something is cut into smaller pieces, the surface area will increase a lot, and more surface area means more area that beneficial bacteria will be able to colonize.

So a moving bed filter = more surface area and a better environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive.

 

[falconut]

no uv and never had one I just use plants in my filters but I do have to trim the roots .They suck up all the nutrients from feeding the fish .I use lava rock in my filters and use a crate with some quilt batting .I also only feed my fish 3 or 4 times a week .I have an aerator that is on a timer that comes on at night and hoses are in the filters .

I see that they sell stock tanks in different sizes, so I might be able to use one of them. Would the container just be filled with lava rock, then the plants rooted into the rock? What about in the winter, do I just shut it down and let the snow lay on it, or is there winter prep? Any photos of yours?

 

[Catfishnut]

What is a moving bed filter? If it was my pond I would install a waterfall and put a nylon bag filed with lava rock in the waterfall and let the good bacteria take care of your algae. In my opinion UV is just a band aid.

Dave,

John has already addressed this, but for the sake of discussion I would like to add my own input. I agree with the moving bed filter system highly and I disagree with the static media bed filters which are akin to the skippy style filters.

The moving bed filters utilize a plastic media which has a great deal of surface area available for bacteria to colonize and set up shop upon. It becomes neutrally bouyant once the media has been colonized by the bacteria. A proper current of water and some gentle aeration drives the moving bed media to roll around inthe tank and bing bang into the individual pieces. This knocks off the old, dead bacteria from the media and makes room for the young, vibrant bacteria to take its place. The water and oxygen flow around the media enhances the Nitrosonomas nitrifying bacteria's environment and improves their efficiency at removing the ammonia and converting it to nitrites, then it also assists the Nitrobacter bacteria in their duty of converting the nitrite to nitrate. Plants in your pond system can then absorb the nitrates and the CO2 as fertilizer and increase the O2 levels.

In a static system (referring to a skippy type filter where the media remains stationary at all times) the environment is unique. The substrate or media is usually submerged most of the time and this means less O2 levels. The Skippy filters actually function as a mechanical filtration unit as well as a biological converter. However, if not maintained properly, an aenerobic bacteria colony could develop and thrive here and these bacteria do not do the job that you want them to.

They could actually make your biological conversion system dysfunctional and create more harm than good.

So why do so many people use skippy style filters? Because they are easy and inexpensive to construct.

What is wrong with the design? You MUST clean them often to prevent the muck buildup and the colinization of aenerobic bacteria.

Why is a moving bed system better? Because the system is nearly virtually a self cleaning filter system.

So what is the hitch here? Why doesn't everyone use a moving bed bio-converter system? Because you must also have a mechanical filtration system to screen out all the major particles first, before it gets to your moving bed filter. The moving bed filter is not there to perform mechanical filtering of leaf litter or large detritus, etc. It is performing the function of ammonia and nitrite removal (or conversion) and that is it's only purpose.

Wait a minute! Why can't you do this all in one vessel, as in the skippy filter design and let that just do it all? The reason I see is because when the skippy type filter becomes clogged with large debris, detritus and clogged to the point that the water flow through it diminishes, you must clean it. If this is the only filtration system in the line up, and it is where your bacteria colonies have set up home shop, you are going to wash away much of your beneficial bacteria during the cleaning cycle and now you will have to wait for those beneficial bacteria to repopulate again for the biological converter system to be at it's most effective level of operation. It is like you fired half or more of your manufacturing plant's workforce and now you have to hire new workers in a rush to keep the plant going and get it back up to speed.

The better design practice here is to have a mechanical filtration system ahead of the moving bed, biological conversion system and then all of your beneficial bacteria in the moving bed filter are never affected by your cleaning cycle of the mechanical filter. They are never disturbed and their habitat is maintained. Any aenerobic bacteria in the mechanical prefiltration vessels upstream are removed during routine cleaning, so no worries there.

I am not certain that I am correct on this subject or in my theories here, but to me it just seems logical.

Gordy

 

[HARO]

Sounds like you just had an epiphany, Gordy! :cheerful: A very good explanation that most beginners can understand.
John

 

[falconut]

How does a moving bed filter handle the winter? If it is shut down in the winter, then wouldn't the bacteria die off and require a new cycle every spring?

 

[HARO]

Unfortunately, any time a filter is shut off for more than a few hours, the bacteria start to die off. Re-starting your filter VERY early in the spring will give the bacteria some time to establish before the fish start feeding heavily again. Remember that all bacteria need food (ammonia or nitrites) in order to multiply. By feeding lightly in spring, you give them a chance to build up to their full capacity as feeding increases.
John

 

[Dave's pond Indiana]

Thank you for the explanation on the moving bed filter.

 

[JohnHuff]

Not to make things more complicated, but I have a shower filter where each level has moving media. No air pump is necessary since the falling water creates its own air bubbles. You will only need a small shower filter with a pond that size and it can be placed against the fence unobtrusively. Gordy, yes I use prefilters because I don't believe in putting in filters after the pump. Can't imagine what string algae will do to impellers.

 

[sissy]

I put my lava rock in dollar store laundry bags so if I have to remove them I can .I have to trim the roots because I really don't want all the roots in the lava rock ,the plants are just there to eat up all the nutrients that the fish produce .I have a air pump on a timer that just comes on at night from midnight to 6 am .The air hoses are only in the filters .Here I really don't have to shut my filters down but I take all the plants out and trim the roots and store them in the basement until spring I run my pond heater right over top of my pump this way the water gets warmer as it is sucked into the pump .So far the only real changes I have done to my pond in 11 years is add another filter .In the winter of 2010 it was bad here and I chose to shut down both of my waterfalls and I put my pump inside a bucket with holes drilled in it with lava rock on top .I also used a crate for my pu,mp with lava rock on top
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[Dave's pond Indiana]

How long have you been running your shower filter ? I am in the process of building a shower that I will be installing in the spring. I am going to use a mechanical filter material between each level of Bio. material to help clean and polish the water and again before it leaves the tower to feed one of my waterfalls.

Not to make things more complicated, but I have a shower filter where each level has moving media. No air pump is necessary since the falling water creates its own air bubbles. You will only need a small shower filter with a pond that size and it can be placed against the fence unobtrusively. Gordy, yes I use prefilters because I don't believe in putting in filters after the pump. Can't imagine what string algae will do to impellers.

 

[JohnHuff]

How long have you been running your shower filter ? I am in the process of building a shower that I will be installing in the spring. I am going to use a mechanical filter material between each level of Bio. material to help clean and polish the water and again before it leaves the tower to feed one of my waterfalls.

A couple of years but I take it down during the winter as the water is too cold. Will the mech filter material slow down your flow rate when it gets clogged?

 

[Dave's pond Indiana]

Yes I will have to clean the filter material. I do have leaf baskets on all my external pump.

A couple of years but I take it down during the winter as the water is too cold. Will the mech filter material slow down your flow rate when it gets clogged?

 

[falconut]

OK, now I'm still confused which direction to go. It seems that for DIY, I have: Moving Bed filter, plant filter & now shower filter (not sure what this is). Here's what I believe to be the basic design of each:



Moving Bed Filter
If I understand it correctly, I'll need a separate mechanical filter for the moving media filter because this is just a bio filter. I believe this is a similar design to the fluidized bed filter I had on my saltwater tank. It was a clear 2" acrylic tube that was fed water from the bottom through the sand looking media and out the top. It was so efficient at converting ammonia and nitrites that it quickly produced nitrates. Many nicknamed them nitrate factories. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it's the same thing, I'd rather stay away since I had bad luck on my tank.

Plant Filter
If I understand this one correctly, the water would flow through the lava rock and out. Again, believe this would need a mechanical filter prior to entering this filter. I'm guessing I could just sink a container with bottom holes and quilt batting for the mechanical filter. The plants should be in plant baskets, so they can be removed. Are there plants that can be left in the winter, since I really don;t have a place to store them.

Would I need a drain on either of these?