Aquascape biofalls into a small bog filter

[Gemma]

I'm pretty sure the bioballs are NEVER supposed to be mechanical filters, but rather, biofilters. The water should go through a mechanical system first (the pads). You shouldn't have to ever clean the balls.

My mechanical filter is my skimmer. I clean the bio fall once a year as I thought most people do (?)

 

[Gemma]

The filter mats in my skimmer boxes get rinsed off once a week or so, except during winter.

In my skimmer, I have a black Matala and another 2" coarse black pad. The Matala pad gets rinsed once a week and the other pad I rinse every day

 

[brokensword]

My mechanical filter is my skimmer. I clean the bio fall once a year as I thought most people do (?)

only if all the solids fall to the bottom of your skimmer; otherwise, they're transported then to your bioballs, yes? I always figured a skimmer was for filtering surface debris. I suppose if your skimmer is large and deep enough, with some sort of solids prevention, it can be such but ususally you're going to need some sort of matting to slow them down. That said, using a 'bog' can have the same issues but lifting the pump higher than the bottom should alleviate much of any 'clogging' as you'd see and clean in your mats. That's why I think 'large and larger' for a bog works best as these same solids have time to decay naturally without clogging the system while keeping them out of the water column.

And I didn't mean NOT to clean the bioballs but that they should never be a problem such as the OP was noting. The bioballs are really only to provide a lot of surface area for the denitrification process.

 

[Gemma]

only if all the solids fall to the bottom of your skimmer; otherwise, they're transported then to your bioballs, yes? I always figured a skimmer was for filtering surface debris. I suppose if your skimmer is large and deep enough, with some sort of solids prevention, it can be such but ususally you're going to need some sort of matting to slow them down. That said, using a 'bog' can have the same issues but lifting the pump higher than the bottom should alleviate much of any 'clogging' as you'd see and clean in your mats. That's why I think 'large and larger' for a bog works best as these same solids have time to decay naturally without clogging the system while keeping them out of the water column.

And I didn't mean NOT to clean the bioballs but that they should never be a problem such as the OP was noting. The bioballs are really only to provide a lot of surface area for the denitrification process.

Thanks @brokensword I understand what you mean.
My skimmer box is the Pond Builder Elite 15", it's the largest I could find, hope it's big enough ?
Dimensions: 30.75” x 23.5” x 26”
Dimensions of Pump Area:
19” x 10” (top) 19” x 14” (bottom area) x 21” max. water depth
Max. Pump Flow: 20,000 gph
I have a 9,200gph Titlewave pump that sits on the bottom. It came with a net and a Black Matala pad and then I added the 2" course black pad after the Matala pad. The box seems clean.

So do you think that the pond would have more surface area if I replaced 2 pads in the bio-fall, with some bio-balls?

 

[brokensword]

Thanks @brokensword I understand what you mean.
My skimmer box is the Pond Builder Elite 15", it's the largest I could find, hope it's big enough ?
Dimensions: 30.75” x 23.5” x 26”
Dimensions of Pump Area:
19” x 10” (top) 19” x 14” (bottom area) x 21” max. water depth
Max. Pump Flow: 20,000 gph
I have a 9,200gph Titlewave pump that sits on the bottom. It came with a net and a Black Matala pad and then I added the 2" course black pad after the Matala pad. The box seems clean.

So do you think that the pond would have more surface area if I replaced 2 pads in the bio-fall, with some bio-balls?

you have a pump in your skimmer, right? It would be interesting to put a mechanical mat/mesh filter around it and see how much solids actually get into your pump and then into your bioballs. I know from my experience with a pre-bog filter that more than I thought was going through. I believe it contributed to my bog1 getting clogged and therefore, dug up. But, it was small, only 4x4 surface area and 40" deep. I think that was a main factor in what happened. When I expanded, I still used the pre-bog filter (but only for a few months as I re-thought the whole issue) and I'd clean my version of a 'filter mat' every other day, depending on what micron mesh level I was using. Typically, that was 300 (the larger the number, the smaller the particle that can pass). Using 200, I didn't change it even once a week, but always wondered exactly what was happening to my newly enlarged bog. I decided to test everything out this past August (eliminating the pre-filters) and so far, water is still just as clear and no discernable clogging of the new bog. Next couple of years will be the real test but I'll be more diligent re removing plants more often, which could have also been a factor.

But the idea is bioballs are for bacteria, not stopping solids. No doubt they accumulate as they're IN the water being pumped, unless you're prefiltering as I was above, and over time, will clog up the system a bit. I think if you're rinsing the bioballs often, the system is being overun. Seems you should be able to get at least a month or more out of just leaving them alone, but I'm sure this is all contingent on total bio area and if there's any pre-filtering plus how fast the flow is.

See, I think for a skimmer to be most effective, the solids from the pond HAVE to drop off into the sump of the skimmer and NOT be passed to your biofiltration. If you have the right size or not, I cannot say, other than to try the test I outlined above. If you get a lot of debris on a mat between pump and it's housing, you'll know. I always assumed skimmers HAD such feature to allow solids to drop out, but as you can tell, I don't use one so am passing on what I've gleaned from reading. Were it my system, I'd definitely insure adequate bioarea that was pre-filtered, or as I've done, a really large bio area (my bog) in which miniscule particles get their chance to decay naturally without me having to wash rinse repeat.

Hope I'm not making this more confusing!

 

[MajorDan]

I use 2 black matalas over pump and Vertical one behind skimmer basket in skimmer and a black, 2 greens and a blue with another black on top In waterfall. Last year water was green soup all year and cleared up over winter. Water stayed clear all year as bog is slam full of plants with hornwort, redluigia, pickerel rush, spider lilies, and water lilies in the pond.

 

[MajorDan]

you have a pump in your skimmer, right? It would be interesting to put a mechanical mat/mesh filter around it and see how much solids actually get into your pump and then into your bioballs. I know from my experience with a pre-bog filter that more than I thought was going through. I believe it contributed to my bog1 getting clogged and therefore, dug up. But, it was small, only 4x4 surface area and 40" deep. I think that was a main factor in what happened. When I expanded, I still used the pre-bog filter (but only for a few months as I re-thought the whole issue) and I'd clean my version of a 'filter mat' every other day, depending on what micron mesh level I was using. Typically, that was 300 (the larger the number, the smaller the particle that can pass). Using 200, I didn't change it even once a week, but always wondered exactly what was happening to my newly enlarged bog. I decided to test everything out this past August (eliminating the pre-filters) and so far, water is still just as clear and no discernable clogging of the new bog. Next couple of years will be the real test but I'll be more diligent re removing plants more often, which could have also been a factor.

But the idea is bioballs are for bacteria, not stopping solids. No doubt they accumulate as they're IN the water being pumped, unless you're prefiltering as I was above, and over time, will clog up the system a bit. I think if you're rinsing the bioballs often, the system is being overun. Seems you should be able to get at least a month or more out of just leaving them alone, but I'm sure this is all contingent on total bio area and if there's any pre-filtering plus how fast the flow is.

See, I think for a skimmer to be most effective, the solids from the pond HAVE to drop off into the sump of the skimmer and NOT be passed to your biofiltration. If you have the right size or not, I cannot say, other than to try the test I outlined above. If you get a lot of debris on a mat between pump and it's housing, you'll know. I always assumed skimmers HAD such feature to allow solids to drop out, but as you can tell, I don't use one so am passing on what I've gleaned from reading. Were it my system, I'd definitely insure adequate bioarea that was pre-filtered, or as I've done, a really large bio area (my bog) in which miniscule particles get their chance to decay naturally without me having to wash rinse repeat.

Hope I'm not making this more confusing!

There is nothing solid in fish poop. It just passes right through the pump and on to the waterfall or bog.

 

[Jhn]

@brokensword Solids don’t settle out in the skimmer box there is too much flow in there. The larger debris and solids should be caught by the net and filter pads, but any fines get through it, unless there is a finer filter mat. When these fines get to the larger waterfall box they settle out and build up in and under the matting which is under the media eventually getting into the media. Then it needs to be rinsed off.

Personally, I run my waterfall box empty for the very reason being discussed, got tired of cleaning the mats out and fine silt would accumulate in the bio media. Now my pond has a large bog and plenty of SSA in the pond as well, so the SSA provided by the bio media In the waterfall box was minimal.

 

[Gemma]

you have a pump in your skimmer, right? It would be interesting to put a mechanical mat/mesh filter around it and see how much solids actually get into your pump and then into your bioballs.

Yes, I have a pump in the skimmer, along with a net and 2 different pads.
I do not have bio-balls in the bio-fall, but I will try your suggestion

 

[brokensword]

@brokensword Solids don’t settle out in the skimmer box there is too much flow in there. The larger debris and solids should be caught by the net and filter pads, but any fines get through it, unless there is a finer filter mat. When these fines get to the larger waterfall box they settle out and build up in and under the matting which is under the media eventually getting into the media. Then it needs to be rinsed off.

Personally, I run my waterfall box empty for the very reason being discussed, got tired of cleaning the mats out and fine silt would accumulate in the bio media. Now my pond has a large bog and plenty of SSA in the pond as well, so the SSA provided by the bio media In the waterfall box was minimal.

do they build such a skimmer that can separate the fines via vortex/centrifigal flow? Thought I saw/read about one once...in any event, my prefilter barrels used to act as your wfall filter boxes, but with a lot more filtering area. They worked but thought I'd go back to directly feeding the bog, now that mine is a lot larger.

 

[brokensword]

Yes, I have a pump in the skimmer, along with a net and 2 different pads.
I do not have bio-balls in the bio-fall, but I will try your suggestion

before my expansion, I used to have the wfall box full of lava rock. Didn't plan on ever really cleaning as my wfall is a pita to access. When I expanded, it was a mess for sure to clean and re-use, so I abandoned this upon reconstruction. I can't imagine cleaning wfall pads all the time. Just another reason to depend on a bog, hey?

 

[Gemma]

before my expansion, I used to have the wfall box full of lava rock. Didn't plan on ever really cleaning as my wfall is a pita to access. When I expanded, it was a mess for sure to clean and re-use, so I abandoned this upon reconstruction. I can't imagine cleaning wfall pads all the time. Just another reason to depend on a bog, hey?

I did the lava rocks for years before the Matala pads, they were in bags so not too bad lift and rinse once a year.
I hear ya on the bog, but unfortunately it is not an option with my settings.
My system in both ponds work great right now, I'm only questioning if the filter in my second pond will be adequate as the 12 koi grow I'm thinking I could add additional filtration utilizing the UV return, but I'm not sure what would be the best choice.
which is more efficient between a trickle shower and a sand and gravel barrel?

 

[brokensword]

I think I remember (vaguely) what your pond looks like, but how about creating an 'overhanging' bog? It would shade part of the pond's perimeter but might provide more value than not? Maybe on one side, something like that? Otherwise, others will have to chime in as I'm truly a bog convert (the little maintenance part sucked me in).

 

[Jhn]

do they build such a skimmer that can separate the fines via vortex/centrifigal flow? Thought I saw/read about one once...in any event, my prefilter barrels used to act as your wfall filter boxes, but with a lot more filtering area. They worked but thought I'd go back to directly feeding the bog, now that mine is a lot larger.

That is a good question, idk I think you are right they do make one that does that....my skimmers don’t separate anything out of them. Either way, probably going to abandon the main skimmer and make a pond addition with a large intake bay in the near future. The one works too well sometimes making me clean it more than I want. Like most on here, I like minimal maintenance in my pond.

 

[GBBUDD]

Sorry if this was already spoke about but i thought i saw you say you have a bio falls dumping into a bog . A bog as we describe here is where the water is pumped to the bottom of the bog and is forced up through the gravel and plant roots can you have water run over a marshy area/ bog sure but it's not doing the max as it could i too have an area thats more a natural bog there is now water forced through the area but it seeps its way through just on it's own.