Aqua art retro drain

[addy1]

Well I didn't think I needed one either until reading all of the posts on this site brokensword...

I don't have one, no need in the 10 years the pond has been running.

 

[GBBUDD]

Have to look at the fact you do have a lot of fish addy but they are goldfish not a 3rd the size of koi. But I do believe a good skimmer or negative edge and proper maintenance they can do the job just fine. I was never around all the time due to traveling to rely on proper maintenance. I needed the pond to take care of its self.

 

[BKHpondcritters]

Have to look at the fact you do have a lot of fish addy but they are goldfish not a 3rd the size of koi. But I do believe a good skimmer or negative edge and proper maintenance they can do the job just fine. I was never around all the time due to traveling to rely on proper maintenance. I needed the pond to take care of its self.

I think this is a VERY key point! The pond 'taking care of itself'. I don't have a bog. I do have two biofalls & two skimmers, but they do require daily maintenance. Now, this "maintenance" might simply be to check & make sure nothing is clogging the skimmer baskets - whether that's frog eggs, stringy algae, maple/oak tree seeds, leaves, etc... - the point is, I need to check that skimmer (or have someone here willing & able to do so) on a daily basis. Whether or not I (or the before mentioned 'someone') have to do anything beyond lifting the lid & maybe grabbing out a handful of 'stuff'... very much depends on, well, everything! Time of year, season, current bio-load, etc...
I do have a LOT of koi load for my 3200-ish gallon pond, though, not to mention a large natural 'stuff' from local wildlife (frogs, toads, etc...) I'm comfortable with my workload (daily checking, weekly/bi-weekly rinsing of filter mats) but I'd never be comfortable leaving the pond 'to its own devices' for a week or more without someone checking on it. Nope. Just - nope. (I'm a bit of a control freak in that manner) Shrug...

 

[GBBUDD]

.I have left the pond to it's self for months on end with only a security camera to keep an eye on the pond. "glad those days are behind me " but I had always planed on this from the beginning . When the skimmer was functioning it worked great i was a bit unorthodox with the skimmers location " that being off to the right side of the main falls. Everyone said the skimmer had to be across the pond from the falls. Well I looked at it a bit different and placed two return jets across from the falls and they were pushing water toward one direction that being toward the skimmer. that was on the opposite side from the jets again next to the falls. Well i did an experiment i dropped a floating go pro in the water at the falls and let it float to see where it would end up. To my delight my design worked as good as i ever could have imagined the go pro floated along the edges of the pond and within two trips circling the pond the go pro had ended up in the skimmer. So anything that might get blown into the water leaves etc it it float it should be within the skimmer before it had a chance to sink.
However as mentioned this required attention though the Helix skimmer also has a triple basket available and over 2 feet tall it could clog up quite quickly. That's where the Bottom drain came into play even if the skimmer clogged it mattered little as the main drain would simply pick up the extra suction that the skimmer no longer could. so the pump just drew from a different source. And for deeper ponds with a bottom drain code called for 2 bottom drains not just one so if a child should sit on or long hair got sucked into or plugged up the drain the second drain that was on the same supply pipe the pressure would simply divert to the other. Again another back up . So in short three items had to fail at the same time in order there to be a problem where it would need human intervention.
But this was great untill the big bigger biggest hit me and I had koi breading like crazy. I could not catch the babies or any fish for that matter i made to many places to hide from predator's which i didn't think of that i would be one of them. so a intake bay with a twist was built. This had a very narrow opening like an intake bay but it is 17 feet long at 11 feet wide at the widest. So heavy sediment gets drawn into this area but as it opens up the debris settles and mostly drops to the deepest and widest area being 30" deep and there the water finds a wide negative edge . the water drops over the negative edge and falls into a small pool this is where any last sediment leaves ect drops and in this area i have a suction pipe to the main pump. it is in the bottom of this little pool but is sitting in a Aquablock that is berried in 3 to 4" rock so while debris may fall into the pool it will never make it to the intake. Here also is a return jet from the cistern. The little pool has a overflow so as it rains i collect the water and it circulates back into the pond. Ok so thats the whole story and the steps i took to hopefully have a pond that needs very little assistance from me. So far so good

 

[rubyduby]

.I have left the pond to it's self for months on end with only a security camera to keep an eye on the pond. "glad those days are behind me " but I had always planed on this from the beginning . When the skimmer was functioning it worked great i was a bit unorthodox with the skimmers location " that being off to the right side of the main falls. Everyone said the skimmer had to be across the pond from the falls. Well I looked at it a bit different and placed two return jets across from the falls and they were pushing water toward one direction that being toward the skimmer. that was on the opposite side from the jets again next to the falls. Well i did an experiment i dropped a floating go pro in the water at the falls and let it float to see where it would end up. To my delight my design worked as good as i ever could have imagined the go pro floated along the edges of the pond and within two trips circling the pond the go pro had ended up in the skimmer. So anything that might get blown into the water leaves etc it it float it should be within the skimmer before it had a chance to sink.
However as mentioned this required attention though the Helix skimmer also has a triple basket available and over 2 feet tall it could clog up quite quickly. That's where the Bottom drain came into play even if the skimmer clogged it mattered little as the main drain would simply pick up the extra suction that the skimmer no longer could. so the pump just drew from a different source. And for deeper ponds with a bottom drain code called for 2 bottom drains not just one so if a child should sit on or long hair got sucked into or plugged up the drain the second drain that was on the same supply pipe the pressure would simply divert to the other. Again another back up . So in short three items had to fail at the same time in order there to be a problem where it would need human intervention.
But this was great untill the big bigger biggest hit me and I had koi breading like crazy. I could not catch the babies or any fish for that matter i made to many places to hide from predator's which i didn't think of that i would be one of them. so a intake bay with a twist was built. This had a very narrow opening like an intake bay but it is 17 feet long at 11 feet wide at the widest. So heavy sediment gets drawn into this area but as it opens up the debris settles and mostly drops to the deepest and widest area being 30" deep and there the water finds a wide negative edge . the water drops over the negative edge and falls into a small pool this is where any last sediment leaves ect drops and in this area i have a suction pipe to the main pump. it is in the bottom of this little pool but is sitting in a Aquablock that is berried in 3 to 4" rock so while debris may fall into the pool it will never make it to the intake. Here also is a return jet from the cistern. The little pool has a overflow so as it rains i collect the water and it circulates back into the pond. Ok so thats the whole story and the steps i took to hopefully have a pond that needs very little assistance from me. So far so good

Wow, what a system you have...I am truly in awe...and to think that you can just leave it and not worry is priceless...I could not leave my aquascape system for even a day without worrying that something would fail while I was away! My pond was too big to net in the Fall so I would worry that during the night the leaves would cause the pump to starve.. I actually looked forward to winter so I could rest a bit The video you took walking around your pond should not be missed by anyone that has the energy and ability to build their own private paradise for it is by far one of the best that I have seen.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this!

 

[GBBUDD]

Closest thing I have to building another. I spelled it out to show some of the planning and challenges associated with a full bell's and Whistle setup. I am not without concerns but only a true pond no pumps is totally worry free.

 

[rubyduby]

I think this is a VERY key point! The pond 'taking care of itself'. I don't have a bog. I do have two biofalls & two skimmers, but they do require daily maintenance. Now, this "maintenance" might simply be to check & make sure nothing is clogging the skimmer baskets - whether that's frog eggs, stringy algae, maple/oak tree seeds, leaves, etc... - the point is, I need to check that skimmer (or have someone here willing & able to do so) on a daily basis. Whether or not I (or the before mentioned 'someone') have to do anything beyond lifting the lid & maybe grabbing out a handful of 'stuff'... very much depends on, well, everything! Time of year, season, current bio-load, etc...
I do have a LOT of koi load for my 3200-ish gallon pond, though, not to mention a large natural 'stuff' from local wildlife (frogs, toads, etc...) I'm comfortable with my workload (daily checking, weekly/bi-weekly rinsing of filter mats) but I'd never be comfortable leaving the pond 'to its own devices' for a week or more without someone checking on it. Nope. Just - nope. (I'm a bit of a control freak in that manner) Shrug...

You have described the situation that I had perfectly BKH....I do not miss the toad breeding season! My skimmers were pouring over with mating toads and I would have to empty them out three or four times a day. I finally figured a way to keep them from jumping the barrier in my skimmers and getting churned up...It was so sad to have to pick out toad eyes, feet, ect...from my biofall mats...The leaves in fall were another nightmare since my pond was too big to cover with a net...Nope, don't miss that scenario (but I do miss my fish terribly and am planning a more manageable size pond this time)

 

[GBBUDD]

How big was the old pond and what size are you thinking now

 

[rubyduby]

Closest thing I have to building another. I spelled it out to show some of the planning and challenges associated with a full bell's and Whistle setup. I am not without concerns but only a true pond no pumps is totally worry free.

I had a seven acre natural (of course) pond up in the Adirondacks (before I moved to Virginia and acquired the big man made pond)...It was so beautiful to look out and see bobcat, otters, ducks, mink, ect... and I miss it terribly but there was nothing to do but enjoy the scenery. I like puttering around, moving rocks, scooping leaves (not tons though) ect...So GBBUDD, you seem to have the perfect scenario! Just enough work to keep you busy but not too busy

 

[rubyduby]

How big was the old pond and what size are you thinking now

I have a small yard here in Florida so I can only fit an 8 x 10 pond and it can only be 2 1/2 ' deep according to the contractors...So I am going from 16,000 gallons to about 1,500...

 

[GBBUDD]

Yes maybe so but I don't have bobcats trying to get to my pond either. But I would almost trade off fish for watching bobcats. I was lucky enough years ago in PA to watch a mother and her cubs . It was in the Delaware cap it was very cool watching them.

 

[BKHpondcritters]

You have described the situation that I had perfectly BKH....I do not miss the toad breeding season! My skimmers were pouring over with mating toads and I would have to empty them out three or four times a day. I finally figured a way to keep them from jumping the barrier in my skimmers and getting churned up...It was so sad to have to pick out toad eyes, feet, ect...from my biofall mats...The leaves in fall were another nightmare since my pond was too big to cover with a net...Nope, don't miss that scenario (but I do miss my fish terribly and am planning a more manageable size pond this time)

I have screening over the skimmer baskets to keep the toads inside, rather than crawling out & getting into the pump. During the height of falling leaves, or other debris, (the shape/size of our pond doesn't lend itself to netting) I will lay a stick on the surface of the water right in front of the skimmer which is prone to clogging. That way the leaves come close but pile up outside the skimmer, rather than in the basket, and I can just scoop them out.

I really don't mind my daily pond chores. I'm pretty much outside in the yard/garden on a daily basis anyway. The puttering around & tending to things is my therapy. I don't really WANT to go away & leave my garden for an extended period.

 

[SarahT]

I have a small yard here in Florida so I can only fit an 8 x 10 pond and it can only be 2 1/2 ' deep according to the contractors...So I am going from 16,000 gallons to about 1,500...

If you can get the outer edges of the pond raised to get it to 3 feet deep, I think you'll appreciate it, depending on how much shade the pond gets in the hottest of the summer, and plenty of shady spots for the fish. Are you going with goldfish/ shubunkins or koi? I don't have a bottom drain, just an in-pond skimmer and most of the year, that doesn't require daily or even weekly puttering. I do scoop the bottom from time to time. I followed good advice from the GPF on having as much of the hose/ tubing inside the pond to minimize leaks and am happy I did. Enjoy the planning.

 

[rubyduby]

Yes maybe so but I don't have bobcats trying to get to my pond either. But I would almost trade off fish for watching bobcats. I was lucky enough years ago in PA to watch a mother and her cubs . It was in the Delaware cap it was very cool watching them.

I used to train in the Delaware Gap (search and rescue dogs) and I came across more bear scat than I have ever seen. Really cool place, beautiful too!I can't imagine seeing a bobcat with kits...you are very lucky to have that image in your memory

 

[rubyduby]

I have screening over the skimmer baskets to keep the toads inside, rather than crawling out & getting into the pump. During the height of falling leaves, or other debris, (the shape/size of our pond doesn't lend itself to netting) I will lay a stick on the surface of the water right in front of the skimmer which is prone to clogging. That way the leaves come close but pile up outside the skimmer, rather than in the basket, and I can just scoop them out.

I really don't mind my daily pond chores. I'm pretty much outside in the yard/garden on a daily basis anyway. The puttering around & tending to things is my therapy. I don't really WANT to go away & leave my garden for an extended period.