also over wintering in garage advice needed

[Faebinder]

Yep keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites. Or you can be lazy and do 100% water changes every 4 days for 6 weeks until the filter cycles. If the garage water temp is below 50 then the fish won't eat and will go to torpor making the water changes unnecessary.

Temperature over 50F = Feeding fish = needing water changes frequently till filter cycles then switch to weekly.

 

[qclabrat]

update:
pH fairly steady at 7.0 and water temp still around 40F
however, after 2 days, ammonia levels are increasing, today I'll do a 25% water change, but that's not the desired maintenance schedule I'd like to have for the next few months. So the larger fish will go into a larger tank instead of using the other barrel. I'll instead keep the other barrel to stage conditioned water to help with periodic water changes. How often should I expect to do water changes if the tanks are stable?

For filtration, I have an older Fluval 303 canister and a few hang over types. If the goal is to only get a bio-system going, which setup is preferred? If either is fine, I'll likely go with the hang over since its easier to get running and isn't packed away somewhere like the canister.

It's dropping down to single digits later this week so, I'm going to need to get this ready in the next day or so.

 

[morewater]

Those containers are way, way, way too dinky.

A cheap and effective way to overwinter your fish in your garage would be to build an above-ground container in the garage using 6x6 or landscape ties and then lining in with EPDM. You can buy your liner in the size that you'll require for a pond build and then simply use the portion of the liner required for the above-ground build without cutting the liner. Hang the portion of the liner that's not required over the edge of the build and roll (or fold) it up. The above-ground build can easily be dis-assembled come Spring and the lumber can be re-used. Ditto the liner.

You simply need more water volume.

A Fluval canister and aquarium hang-over (giggle) types are inadequate. You're going to need a pressure filter mated to your total volume. Might as well buy the pump that you'll require as well. AquaScape makes a pump that's a variable output (I think 2000-5000gph) that you could use the lowest output for the garage build, then scale up for your in-ground pond application.

You may want to use an ammonia-binding agent.

Don't forget to de-chlorinate the water and to add beneficial bacteria.

 

[MitchM]

Water changes are not a solution for maintaining ammonia levels.
As I said before, cycling an aquatic environment with fish present is a dangerous balancing act because you need ammonia present so the biofilm can establish itself, but you also need low ammonia levels so the fish don't burn their gills.
What is your present ammonia level (the numerical value), what kit are you using to measure it?
Have some Prime water conditioner and some zeolite or zeocarb on hand to help keep the fish safe.
The best you could do is maintain an ammonia level of no more than maybe .25 or .5, depending on the water temperature and PH.

 

[morewater]

Water changes are time-consuming, laborious and costly. Set it up so that it sustains, rather than needs constant attention.

Buy your pond equipment and set up a temporary, large volume build.

The larger the volume, the easier it is to maintain a balanced environment.

 

[qclabrat]

Those containers are way, way, way too dinky.

A cheap and effective way to overwinter your fish in your garage would be to build an above-ground container in the garage using 6x6 or landscape ties and then lining in with EPDM. You can buy your liner in the size that you'll require for a pond build and then simply use the portion of the liner required for the above-ground build without cutting the liner. Hang the portion of the liner that's not required over the edge of the build and roll (or fold) it up. The above-ground build can easily be dis-assembled come Spring and the lumber can be re-used. Ditto the liner.

You simply need more water volume.

A Fluval canister and aquarium hang-over (giggle) types are inadequate. You're going to need a pressure filter mated to your total volume. Might as well buy the pump that you'll require as well. AquaScape makes a pump that's a variable output (I think 2000-5000gph) that you could use the lowest output for the garage build, then scale up for your in-ground pond application.

You may want to use an ammonia-binding agent.

Don't forget to de-chlorinate the water and to add beneficial bacteria.

Okay this is a lot to take in at once...
I usually like to do a fair amount of research before jumping in, unfortunately the fish fell into my lap last week and so here I am, zero pond experience

No chance doing a temporary pond in the garage this winter, as I have limited space in the garage at the moment and had to make space by moving the tractor and snowblower. The garage doubles as my workshop, so I won't have any space now to do projects while the fish are present. However, next year, the temp pond is a very good possibility depending on the outside pond options. I'll discuss this in another thread soon. Would you happen to have any pictures of the setup you've illustrated?

Apologies for all the questions, but why is it so necessary to circulate the water when the fish are semi-dormant. I've read in may places where it is not recommended to stir up the water too much as it is beneficial for the warmer water to sink in the water column where the fish will gravitate towards. Though I understand the need to mate a filter with the total water volume when the fish are active and eating. Also can you explain more on this pressure filter setup? Starting to feel stressed like my fish...

 

[qclabrat]

Water changes are not a solution for maintaining ammonia levels.
As I said before, cycling an aquatic environment with fish present is a dangerous balancing act because you need ammonia present so the biofilm can establish itself, but you also need low ammonia levels so the fish don't burn their gills.
What is your present ammonia level (the numerical value), what kit are you using to measure it?
Have some Prime water conditioner and some zeolite or zeocarb on hand to help keep the fish safe.
The best you could do is maintain an ammonia level of no more than maybe .25 or .5, depending on the water temperature and PH.

Thanks Mitch, I'm a believer now, not that I didn't hear you, but the volume of info is overwhelming.
I'm just using an API water test kit for everything, the solution type, do you suggest another? yesterday the ammonia reading was 1.0. Should I do water change or use something like ammo-lock? What pH range correlates with which ammonia level?

The Prime product is to condition tap water and the zeolite/carb for filter media? Thanks again

 

[Faebinder]

1.0 is a lot, are you still feeding the fish?

Do a 100% water change.

Is there a filter in he setup? An aerator and a filter would help. how many fish in how big of a container gallon wise, I'll need to know these details.

 

[sissy]

My neighbor had a pond in his huge garage and he used sandbags and put the liner over them and it looked so natural it was amazing .I lost the pics for it sad to say and he has moved and took it apart .I know I had posted them on here a couple of years ago .It looked like it was outside and he had huge koi and mulch and rocks and even a boat in the pond that looked wrecked .

 

[qclabrat]

1.0 is a lot, are you still feeding the fish?

Do a 100% water change.

Is there a filter in he setup? An aerator and a filter would help. how many fish in how big of a container gallon wise, I'll need to know these details.

they have not eaten for two weeks, I have an aerator now but no filter yet, working on that

the container is about 40g but going to move the big fish into a 75g today, I'll get a filter on the large tank this weekend, but will take time to create the biofilm from scratch, the 40g tub has about a 5 day head start. Should I introduce a bio additive into both tanks?

 

[Nanner]

Not much to add but wishing you the best...you are in good hands here and seem to be asking all the right questions . best of luck

 

[qclabrat]

got my larger tank but just realized I forgot to buy more water conditioner. too late to run out for more. Need to get this in bulk! Anyone suggest a reliable brand?

regardless, I've filled the tank with tap water and will add conditioner tomorrow. For now, I've done another 50% water change, that's all the remaining preconditioned water I had. Checked the pH, 7.0 but the ammonia is still close to 1.0. I don't have Ammo-lock but have a bottle of Neutral Regulator. Should I use it to neutralize the ammonia till I can get the new tank and a filter going? I believe the neutralizers mess up the ammonia tests so not sure what to do. I bought it for an emergency, but feel it may not be needed yet.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

To clarify a point. Ammonia production is not proportionally tied to feeding habits or levels.
Ammonia is produced as a by-product of fish respiration. In comparison, very little is produced from fish waste or organic decay. As long as fish are alive and breathing they are producing Ammonia, whether they eat or not. Stressed fish will excrete a higher level of Ammonia.

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Ammo lock and nutrifiers are ok to use.
But remember they do not remove them They detoxfi them so they do not harm the fish but will still show up as ammonia,when you test for them, and also (and this I am not positive about) but I think it slows down a cycle.
So now make sure you have declorenator on hand get everything set up
And everyday do a 25 percent water.change and declor.
A cycle is
Ammonia first this will cycle
Then you will see nitrites then this will cycle
Then you will get nitrates this will indicate the end of.the cycle and.
In perfect conditions 2 or 3 weeks
But you do not have that so maybe if you get a
Bigger tub some filtration going and some hard work a month maybe a little more for a full cycle.
Then you might be able to do water changes week in half or do weeks.

The right setup and a true cycle is the most important thing to fish keeping. The fish don't care what the filter looks like or if the tank is square or triangle or has wood sideing.

Good luck
Ruben

 

[qclabrat]

Hello
Ammo lock and nutrifiers are ok to use.
But remember they do not remove them They detoxfi them so they do not harm the fish but will still show up as ammonia,when you test for them, and also (and this I am not positive about) but I think it slows down a cycle.
So now make sure you have declorenator on hand get everything set up
And everyday do a 25 percent water.change and declor.
A cycle is
Ammonia first this will cycle
Then you will see nitrites then this will cycle
Then you will get nitrates this will indicate the end of.the cycle and.
In perfect conditions 2 or 3 weeks
But you do not have that so maybe if you get a
Bigger tub some filtration going and some hard work a month maybe a little more for a full cycle.
Then you might be able to do water changes week in half or do weeks.

The right setup and a true cycle is the most important thing to fish keeping. The fish don't care what the filter looks like or if the tank is square or triangle or has wood sideing.

Good luck
Ruben

I guess that's my question, if you are getting false test results for ammonia, how do you know when the water has un-neutralized ammonia present at a later date? my next question is a bit stupid. If you can just nutrify the ammonia, why not just keep on doing it instead of getting the bio cycle going? How long do these nutifiers work?