Advice on second pond layout with water bog

[csdude55]

The 6550 pump I'd posted earlier was $369, and a 25x35' pond liner was $288:

Pond Supplies, Pond Liner & Water Garden Supplies - 25' Wide 20 Mil Polyethylene Pond Liners

Find 25' Wide 20 Mil Polyethylene Pond Liners at Pondliner.com. Large Selection. Fast Shipping.

www.pondliner.com

I know that I could realistically spend a LOT more money on the pond liner! But the one I have now is 20mil and has been fine for about 13 years, so I'm not sure that it's worth $1000+ for a thicker one.

After that it's just dirt, rocks, and labor.

I can get dirt for free, and the guy doing all of my lumbering said that he has tons and tons of river rock that I can have for free. So I'm allowing $1,340 for hoses, pea gravel for the water bog, maybe some nicer rock for the waterfall, and labor. And, of course, plants.

Am I underestimating something, or is it just the labor there that would be more? Keep in mind that my guy is going to be hauling in 4-5 dump truck loads of dirt, packing it and leveling it, then digging the holes, then hauling in 1-2 loads of rock. The distance from my house is only about 5 miles, too, so less than an hour per load.

 

[GBBUDD]

The 6550 pump I'd posted earlier was $369, and a 25x35' pond liner was $288:

Did you read the info on that liner ? Not recomended for small water gardens . Though if your doing a angled walls toward the bottom at say a 25 degree angle round and simple then that is an exception . If your making rounded tight corners it's not your best choice but you could make it work after many a choice word

 

[SarahT]

The 6550 pump I'd posted earlier was $369, and a 25x35' pond liner was $288:

Pond Supplies, Pond Liner & Water Garden Supplies - 25' Wide 20 Mil Polyethylene Pond Liners

Find 25' Wide 20 Mil Polyethylene Pond Liners at Pondliner.com. Large Selection. Fast Shipping.

www.pondliner.com

I know that I could realistically spend a LOT more money on the pond liner! But the one I have now is 20mil and has been fine for about 13 years, so I'm not sure that it's worth $1000+ for a thicker one.

After that it's just dirt, rocks, and labor.

I can get dirt for free, and the guy doing all of my lumbering said that he has tons and tons of river rock that I can have for free. So I'm allowing $1,340 for hoses, pea gravel for the water bog, maybe some nicer rock for the waterfall, and labor. And, of course, plants.

Am I underestimating something, or is it just the labor there that would be more? Keep in mind that my guy is going to be hauling in 4-5 dump truck loads of dirt, packing it and leveling it, then digging the holes, then hauling in 1-2 loads of rock. The distance from my house is only about 5 miles, too, so less than an hour per load.

You have a good plan going. Give a good second (third) thought before you go 20mil versus 45. Many posts in pond forums (this and others) are about leaks in liners, and the liner is the hardest thing to replace or attempt to repair. There are lots of discussions in this forum on places to get good liners less expensive, and that is a good resource.
Free river rock? Oh, I'm swooning with envy.

 

[csdude55]

@GBBUDD , I did a bunch of tight angles and everything with my original pond, but it was really irrelevant in the end. So with this one, I figured to just have a big oval hole dug out and not pay as much attention to having those angles that no one would ever see. The focal points will really be the original pond and the waterfalls, anyway.

The only real angle would be around the perimeter, where I'll dig out with a shovel to have a stack of rocks to hide the liner. I learned that one the hard way! LOL

@SarahT , I had looked before for references to stores with good yet inexpensive liners, but came up empty! I bought my original one from pondliners.com, which is why I looked there for a new one. A 45mil that's 25x35', though, was a painful $1,023!

25' x 35' Firestone PondGard 45 mil EPDM Pond Liner

Pondliner.com offers the 25' x 35' Firestone PondGard 45 mil EPDM Pond Liner. Our pond liners are built to last. Call 866-766-3548 for technical support.

www.pondliner.com

I just don't have that kind of money to spend on it :-( Any other suggestions on finding a 25x35' 45mil for under $500?

Free river rock? Oh, I'm swooning with envy.

There's a river very close to me (Yadkin River), and while it's really not a nice looking river it's not uncommon for it to flood and then leave river rock everywhere! And people that live near the river have to get rid of them if they want any type of yard.

I suspect that what he's going to give me for free is more like very large gravel chunks with rough and sharp edges, not smooth and pretty river rock. The DOT regularly uses these rocks to fill in ditches.

I suspect that I'll still have to buy a few pallets of nicer rock for the façade. So don't be too jealous! LOL

 

[GBBUDD]

A 45mil that's 25x35', though, was a painful $1,023!

Look at just liners .com

 

[GBBUDD]

Just liners 25'x35' EPDM 45 Mil Pond Liner 930

 

[csdude55]

Thanks, I just looked! Their site is a little harder to navigate, but I found this one:

25' x 35' Firestone Pondgard Pond Liner

EPDM pond liner is the material of choice for most pond lining applications. EPDM is a 45 mil synthetic rubber material that is not only easy to work with, but long lasting and aquatic safe. EPDM pond liner's flexibility provides more versatility in the pond design.

www.justliners.com

It's still $936... cheaper, yes, but not by a lot. I haven't gone through the cart to find totals with shipping, though, so that might change it a little, too.

But it's out of stock, so I guess it doesn't matter! LOL

I might be able to get away with a 24x36' 40mil for $578:

40 Mil 24' x 36' Liner

24' x 36' Reinforced Polyethylene Liner 40 Mil Thickness

www.justliners.com

It's still over my price range, and twice the price of the 20mil! But worth it, maybe?

 

[csdude55]

I just realized, when you said "930" you were referring to the price! Duh, I was looking for a model number :-/ LOL

 

[snoozer]

At Everything Ponds, a 30 mil, 25x35 RPE liner would be $639.00. Shipping is free. Might be worth looking at.

 

[combatwombat]

Thanks, I just looked! Their site is a little harder to navigate, but I found this one:

25' x 35' Firestone Pondgard Pond Liner

EPDM pond liner is the material of choice for most pond lining applications. EPDM is a 45 mil synthetic rubber material that is not only easy to work with, but long lasting and aquatic safe. EPDM pond liner's flexibility provides more versatility in the pond design.

www.justliners.com

It's still $936... cheaper, yes, but not by a lot. I haven't gone through the cart to find totals with shipping, though, so that might change it a little, too.

But it's out of stock, so I guess it doesn't matter! LOL

I might be able to get away with a 24x36' 40mil for $578:

40 Mil 24' x 36' Liner

24' x 36' Reinforced Polyethylene Liner 40 Mil Thickness

www.justliners.com

It's still over my price range, and twice the price of the 20mil! But worth it, maybe?

RPE is good stuff, especially if you’re not making tight curves.

 

[csdude55]

Well... from pondliner.com, shipping on that 20mil is $302.13!

They also have a 30mil PVC for $505, but shipping for that one is $180.76 :-O So @snoozer , you're right that everything-ponds.com would be a little cheaper.

Shipping for the RPE 40mil at justliners.com is $112.44, though. So at the end of the day, total with shipping on the 40mil is actually only $100 more than total with shipping for the 20mil... and it's essentially the same price as the 30mil from pondliner.com.

So I'm looking at $690 for a 40mil RPE... a bit more than I'd budgeted, but doable.

Unless you all think that a 30mil RPE (not laminated) from everything-ponds.com would be just fine? That would be $639, shipped, so close enough in price as to be irrelevant. I guess it's a question of strength over pliability?

 

[combatwombat]

If you don't have curves/shelves, I'd go for the 40mil.

 

[csdude55]

The only curves / angles would be around the perimeter (to make the oval shape), so I guess there would have to be some pleats? And then a shelf at the top so that rocks can hide the liner.

So unless there's some argument otherwise, I'll probably go with the 40mil... I'd rather spend $50 more now and not regret it later.

 

[GBBUDD]

I'd do my home work read all the ins and out of pond building maintaining . Hang around a while see what has been done what worked for who on what . Then pull the trigger budget the job and build it latter once the right way and save thousands down the road.

There are so many little tricks or twists you can do with a pond. Without hanging around a while it's very hard to see into the future and say oh I could have done a intake bay for 100 bucks more liner and some rock over a 700 dollar skimmer. Etc

 

[csdude55]

In all honesty, man, time's getting away from me! I have a koi in a 36G aquarium, and I had every intention of building a pond 2 years ago for him. But then... COVID. My income crashed and I was literally buying food on credit cards, so the pond had to be postponed.

He had outgrown the aquarium 2 years ago, and now it's bordering cruelty.

Best case scenario is that I get the pond built this year, move over a few goldfish and plants from the original pond, let it run over the winter, then put the koi in it next spring. Any hesitation at all right now might mean adding a whole 'nother year to that :-O

I know that you're going to suggest moving the koi to the original pond right now... the concern there is that the filtering is pretty inadequate, and it's just FULL of algae that I haven't been able to remove. So you can really only see a few inches beneath the surface! I know that my goldfish in there seem OK because they come up when I spread pellets, but I really don't want to risk moving my pet koi to a potentially unhealthy habitat.