Added a few koi to a established goldfish pond

[anthony21078]

Now looking at the photo of your pond there. Are you sure it’s even 1000gallons? It looks much smaller then that

It was metered when I filled. 960gallons

Ive been reading on koiphen about diy sand and gravel filters. Still researching....

Plan now is to remove the rocks from the bottom and either use a retro bottom drain with external pump or the laguna maxflo 4280 on the pond floor in place of the bottom drain. Both setups seem to have similar results with removing solids/waste.

I have my eye on the OASE biotec sceenmatic 18000. At 900$ its expensive and more then a DIY sand/gravel setup. However, I can have everything at my house in the next few days for a quick install.

 

[poconojoe]

That's definitely my excuse.

Ha! Good one!

 

[BKHpondcritters]

It was metered when I filled. 960gallons

Ive been reading on koiphen about diy sand and gravel filters. Still researching....

Plan now is to remove the rocks from the bottom and either use a retro bottom drain with external pump or the laguna maxflo 4280 on the pond floor in place of the bottom drain. Both setups seem to have similar results with removing solids/waste.

I have my eye on the OASE biotec sceenmatic 18000. At 900$ its expensive and more then a DIY sand/gravel setup. However, I can have everything at my house in the next few days for a quick install.

Just remember this - removing rocks from the bottom of your pond reduces the overall biological surface area. I know that when you 'consult' with DKP people, the consensus on gravel lined ponds is --- NO!!

I am sitting at about 3000 - 3200 gallons with two comets (who are only still in there because they evaded capture a couple years when we did our last rodeo round-up! lol) and 14 koi (unless I'm forgetting someone?) My water is clear. I don't have a bog. I have a LOT of plants & a LOT of surface area. We had a (sadly) very successful spawning this Spring & will be having to rehome (or cull, if we want to keep any of the babies) fish next year.

Just know that the more you put your pond into the realm of 'having' to be managed, the harder it will be to keep everything balanced. Can it be done? Well.... yeah. Sometimes it comes down to how much time, effort, work, money, etc... you're willing & able to dedicate to this hobby.

 

[GBBUDD]

Just remember this - removing rocks from the bottom of your pond reduces the overall biological surface area. I know that when you 'consult' with DKP people, the consensus on gravel lined ponds is --- NO!!

AGREED and koi pen does nothing for bio they are all mechanical

 

[GBBUDD]

ometimes it comes down to how much time, effort, work, money, etc... you're willing & able to dedicate to this hobby.

And some times it benefit is to sit back and let it take its own course

 

[anthony21078]

Just remember this - removing rocks from the bottom of your pond reduces the overall biological surface area. I know that when you 'consult' with DKP people, the consensus on gravel lined ponds is --- NO!!

I am sitting at about 3000 - 3200 gallons with two comets (who are only still in there because they evaded capture a couple years when we did our last rodeo round-up! lol) and 14 koi (unless I'm forgetting someone?) My water is clear. I don't have a bog. I have a LOT of plants & a LOT of surface area. We had a (sadly) very successful spawning this Spring & will be having to rehome (or cull, if we want to keep any of the babies) fish next year.

Just know that the more you put your pond into the realm of 'having' to be managed, the harder it will be to keep everything balanced. Can it be done? Well.... yeah. Sometimes it comes down to how much time, effort, work, money, etc... you're willing & able to dedicate to this hobby.

Got it. But how effective is a debris handling pump when placed on top of small rocks VS sitting on a relatively smooth liner in regards to removing waste? To me it sounded like a smooth bottom would be much easier for a pump to pull waste as opposed to a rock bottom where waste would be trapped between the rocks.

If beneficial bacteria is growing all over those rocks, wont the same be said when that bacteria eventually grows on the floor liner directly?

 

[Mmathis]

@anthony21078 I have my pump elevated from the bottom of the pond, on a milk crate. Beneficial bacteria grows on every surface.

 

[anthony21078]

@anthony21078 I have my pump elevated from the bottom of the pond, on a milk crate.

​

Is it on the milk crate as safety measure in case you catch leak somewhere after the pump and don't drain the pond?

@anthony21078 Beneficial bacteria grows on every surface.

BKHpondcritters says, "Just remember this - removing rocks from the bottom of your pond reduces the overall biological surface area."
- I suppose this is referring to added surface area in addition to the pond floor?

 

[BKHpondcritters]

Got it. But how effective is a debris handling pump when placed on top of small rocks VS sitting on a relatively smooth liner in regards to removing waste? To me it sounded like a smooth bottom would be much easier for a pump to pull waste as opposed to a rock bottom where waste would be trapped between the rocks.

If beneficial bacteria is growing all over those rocks, wont the same be said when that bacteria eventually grows on the floor liner directly?

A smooth liner will grow bacteria, but it has nowhere near the surface area of a gravel covered bottom for bacteria to colonize on.

I hear people talking about having to vacuum their pond bottom of 'muck' and they don't want gravel because that will make it harder to vacuum. OK. I know every pond is different & every ponder's experience is different, but... There is NO 'muck' in my gravel bottom in the main pond where the fish reside. I will admit to having some accumulation of 'muck' in my shallow upper pool which is fishless, but where there are koi swimming, digging, rooting, feeding, etc...? Nope. I just spent considerable time wallowing around in the pond yesterday & moved a lot of the gravel from places where it was too heavy (more than a couple of inches) to places where it was too thin (liner was showing) I stirred up absolutely NO 'muck' in this process. There's nothing to vacuum!

My pumps sit in skimmers, so they are not on the pond bottom. I used to have 'solids handling' pumps, but they eventually died & I replaced them with other, more energy efficient pumps. One of the things we did yesterday during our wallowing was to shut down the pumps & clean them of accumulated debris. The skimmer baskets & filter pads don't totally eliminate the small debris that can & does clog the pump intake. It's a three time per year chore that we just do & don't worry about it.

Again, every pond & experience is different, so you've got to take the best of your knowledge from research & listening to other pond people, and mash it into your own personal 'best' pond. What works for you & what you like/enjoy might not work at all for someone else. Who cares what anyone else thinks of your pond??? You're the one who has to live with it & enjoy it. So, take what you will from the advice of others (weighing the experience factor greatly!) and, then go for it.

 

[Mmathis]

@anthony21078 Yes, to keep the pond from completely draining! A burned out pump is preferable to dead fishies.

 

[Jhn]

- I suppose this is referring to added surface area in addition to the pond floor?

Yes, every wet surface is colonized by bacteria, adding rocks creates more surface area, the smaller the rocks the more surface area created.

 

[brokensword]

this is why we use bog filtration and why it works so well; lots of area with pea gravel if at least 12" thick. Ideally, you can have a bog as well as a thin layer of pea gravel on your pond bottom (not rocks) as this will not hinder (appreciably) if you want to vacuum and from accounts of ponders here, doesn't create a huge amount of mulm on the pond bottom.

And as noted before, using a float switch means you can dictate how low your pond drops before cutting off the pump. I have mine set for about 10". Too, my pump is off the bottom, but moreso because it won't drive the bottom debris into my bog, if any acculates (which I've seen very little of so far).

 

[Lisak1]

a smooth bottom would be much easier for a pump to pull waste as opposed to a rock bottom where waste would be trapped between the rocks.

I think this is one of the biggest myths that get circulated - the debris getting trapped in the bottom of the gravel pond. Note I said "gravel". If you put actual rocks in the bottom, you will likely trap debris. You don't want 12 inches of gravel - you'll likely trap debris. But my SHALLOW gravel bottom is as clean as a whistle. When I get in to clean up the lilies and other plants I make sure to swish the gravel around with my feet, redistribute it to make sure it's evenly spread (the fish love to move it around) and there's never any accumulation of muck. Do you have to have gravel? No. Of course not. And some people do prefer gravel free for their own reasons. But so often we hear "the first thing the 'experts' told me to do was get the gravel out of the pond". That's just not good information. I know everyone has their own opinions of Aquascape, but those guys build dozens of pond a year in all shapes and sizes in all kinds of climates for going on 30 years now - if gravel in the pond was creating an issue, they would have figured it out by now.

And that's not to say Koiphen is wrong - but know what kind of pond you want. A dedicated koi pond with all kinds of filtration that needs constant attention or a garden pond with a few fish that you can relax and enjoy? Some people love the tinkering and chemistry and all that goes into keeping koi. Just like some people love tinkering with their cars. I'd rather just start it and go where I'm going!

 

[anthony21078]

I know it's only been two weeks since adding koi (and feeding 1x a day) but I have been checking the water parameters every two days.
AMN 0
NI 0
NA 5
PHOS 0
PH 7.5

Everything looks good (for now) while I continue to plan out additional filtration ideas. Right now the plan is to use a 3500-4000gph solids pump on the floor likely going to a sand/gravel drum filter. I am removing the 2 tetra box filters on the pond floor but I would like to keep the pump in the pond and change the plumbing. Current setup has that 1000gph pump flowing from 2 tetra box filters and out of a little frog statue and fountain. I watched a few videos about container bogs and I would like to use the 1000gph pump for a small bog that gravity flows back to the pond. Is a 1000gph pump with 7 feet of lift enough pump for a 50 or 100 gallon container bog?

The 2 tetra filters have 3 filter pads in each box. Any ideas how I can re-use them to keep the beneficial bacteria that has been growing on them when I remove the filter box?

 

[anthony21078]

Can I get some help in finding 50-100gallon containers to use for a bog?

Edit...I suppose something like this is good

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tuff-stuff-products-heavy-duty-oval-stock-tank-110-gal?cm_vc=-10005