Water Level Monitoring and Management

[Catfishnut]

I wish to incorporate gravity flow throughout my entire pond and filtration system. At the final stage, that means that I need to pump the water up and back to the pond. I don't want the pump to run dry, of course, so I need to monitor the water level in the final stage and control the pump ON/OFF with the information.

Just curious what you are all using (if anything) for this purpose. I am mainly interested in what you are using for water level detection sensors. I have a few ideas, but I keep falling back on the crudest and least "techie" methods.

I have pondered using photo-optics, capacitive reactance sensing, ultrasonics, mechanical float switches, LVDT probes, pressure and load cell transducers, etc. But, the simplist design I can conjure (and I would like to keep the system simple) is based upon electrical conductance detection. Basically stainless steel probes which conduct when the water level reaches them. I seem to desire this method opposed to simple float switches as there would be no moving / mechanical parts involved (except the pump itself).

Please share your ideas and make this an informative thread.

Catfishnut

 

[Catfishnut]

My design idea is to install a vertical, 1" PVC pipe to the side of the last filtering vessel (tank). The water level in the PVC tube would follow the level in the tank but would not be subject to any turbulence created by aeration or water pumps so it would provide a consistent and stable reading of the water level within the tank. It would buffer any turbulent fluctuations in the water level reading.

I would drill holes through the PVC pipe and insert stainless steel 1/4" bolts through the entire diameter of the pipe. Seal the ports with polyurethane or silicone. Attach an electrical contact to each bolt. One bolt would be the the hot lead (+Vcc) and the other bolts would serve as the measuring stakes for the water level. They would complete the electrical circuit when the water touches the probe, indicating the precise water level within the tank.

if the final filtration stage tank's water level gets too low, I can program the systemn to shut all pumps off so that no pump runs dry. When the water level is normal, one pump will run 24/7 and hopefully maintain the water level in the overall system without cycling on and off repeatedly. If the level gets too high, a second pump could be brought on line to assist the first pump until the water level is brought back to normal.

My intention is to not have any one pump cycle on/off repeatedly and for no pump to operate dry and to control the water level in each filtration tank so that no one tank overflows. The pump/s should either remain consistently ON or consistently idle for the majority of it's service life.

If I can select the pump volume (GPH or GPM) to match the passive gravity flow of my entire filtration system, then this should all work like a fine Swiss watch!

Any comments or suggestions?

Catfishnut

 

[JohnHuff]

I agree wholeheartedly with your low tech approach. I have a submersed parabolic reflector with the focal point on a solar powered robotic digital arm. Once the water level drops and reveals the reflector, the solar powered arm dials a pre-programmed disposable Nokia 1616 with a waterproof housing. It calls me and I go outside and turn on the faucet.

I tried using an atomic array with Uranium 235 but I was worried about the radioactive effects on the gonads of my fishy friends so I decided to use the eco-friendly solar approach. Besides, I got a $250 rebate on the solar panel and the phone was free courtesy of our government.

...but I keep falling back on the crudest and least "techie" methods.

 

[Catfishnut]

OK, so you received an Obama-Crack-Whore-Phone (like Machelle Obama uses) in leu of a nuclear, radioactive, highly potent, plutonium enriiched, pond pump?

I think I would return the phone, if you can. It would be the safest alternative.

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

 

[sissy]

I just use a big plastic yardstick and mounted it to a board and since it was not long enough I measured and put it 2 1/2 feet off the bottom how long tech can that be .This way I could screw it to the board going across the pond .It is marked at the highest point and at the gotta add water point and then at the oh boy are you stupid point add water now or you are going to be in trouble fishy

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I have no automatic water leveling device on my system, but my main filter system is gravity feed through out the entire system. (Although I do keep a little bit of enriched plutonium on hand in case of an emergency).

The main 3" pond drain gravity feeds to a vortex settling tank,

which gravity feeds to a 55 gal tank with Matala filter material,

which feeds to another tank that hold my homemade quilt batting filter.

There is a 3" line exiting this final tank from which the main 3500 gph pump draws the water through the system of tanks and pumps it up to the waterfall and back to the pond. I have on occasion had air get sucked into the pump because of excessive draw down on the last tank, but it has never, and could never run completely dry. The couple times the pump did suck air was because of the design of my screen device on the exit pipe on my vortex tank. It's a another DIY design that I haven't quite perfected yet, shown below.

The screen above is designed to catch most of the debris that doesn't sink to the bottom of the settling tank before it goes through the rest of the system. It is easily removable and cleaned out, but as I say it isn't perfected yet and was the cause of the pump at the far end of the system sucking air. What actually happens to cause that is when the screen collects too much debris it tends to float up off the 3" pipe it rests on. This in itself I found strange because as debris builds up on the screen and begins to plug it, and the water inside draws down, and the water level builds up outside the screen, I one would have assumed that the water pressure would force the screen down and tighter to the drain pipe, but that that is not what happens. The lack of water inside the screen is replaced with air which is lighter than water and what happens is the whole thing wants to float, so it floats up and pops up off the drain pipe. Most times when this happens it pops up just enough to allow water to flow under and past the screen into the drain pipe, and does that until I find it at which time I will clean the screen and put it back in place and it's fine. However, a couple times what has happened when it has floated up the bowl shifts sideways a bit and partially plugs the exit hole. When this happens it allows the other tanks to draw down excessively until the last tank drains enough that air gets into the drain pipe leading to the pump. As soon as the air hits that pump it loses some of it's prime and stops pumping at 3500 gph and when that happens the tanks stop getting drained as fast and the water level starts to rise in the tanks again until the suction on the screen is relieved and it allows more water through, and since the pump is located below the water level it never totally runs dry, but it does get air in there and continues to pump below full capacity until I find it and rectify it.
So no fancy automatic water leveling or pump shut off devices on my system, but it still seems to work in it's own way with it's built in fail safes, and so far the pump has yet to run completely dry. One day I plan to try something else with my vortex tank, but for now it seems to work fine 99% of the time, so I don't have any immediate pressure to do so.

 

[Catfishnut]

Randy,

Very cool! I like your system.

I have a question for you regarding the Matala media. I have been debating with myself about what porosity to use (black / green / blue / grey) and think that I should go with the grey.
I won't be using the Matala as a mechanical filter, but as a bacteria bed. The water will be filtered down to 300 microns in the first stage of my system and 100 microns in the second stage so there is no need to mechanically filter it further than that. The third stage is where I was going to implement the Matala media.

I was thinking to use two Matala rolls (6" x 22") and making a DIY dribble or spray bar to feed the water onto the media and let it gravity flow down through the Matala rolls to a holding chamber below. In the holding chamber (the bottom 16" - 18" space of a 55 gallon barrel) I would aerate the water, monitor the water level and pump it out to return back to the pond.

What O2 from the aerator which isn't absorbed into the water for the fish in the pond to use will rise up through the Matala media and supply the Nitrosonomas and Nitrobacter bacteria with fresh air as the influent water leaches down through the media.

This is the tank where I want to control the water level. I do not want the Matala media to become submersed in water nor do I want the water level in the tank to drop so low that the aerators bubbles are not in contact with water or that I run the outlet pump dry. This is the reason for my query regarding water level monitoring.

My question/s for you are how are you using your Matala media? Did you get the rolls fitted inside a barrel or did you buy the square sheets and then cut and layer them? Are they submerged in water and used as both a mechanical filter and a bacteria bed? Which porosity did you use (color)? Did you use more than one porosity?

Thanks Randy,

Gordy

 

[Catfishnut]

Post script:

Randy, I see in your first pix that you are using Uniseals. Kudos! I like that.

Gordy

 

[Mucky_Waters]

My question/s for you are how are you using your Matala media? Did you get the rolls fitted inside a barrel or did you buy the square sheets and then cut and layer them? Are they submerged in water and used as both a mechanical filter and a bacteria bed? Which porosity did you use (color)? Did you use more than one porosity?

Gordy
Originally I had thought the Matala would function as mechanical media, but I found that the vortex tank and screen caught pretty much everything my Malata media would catch, and what was fine enough to go through the screen would also go through Malata. That's why I later added the quilt batting filter, which works very well for catching the very fine stuff.
Because I originally was going to try to use it as mechanical media I got three different grades of the Malata material, black, and green and then blue. And I do submerge it vertically in my tank. I cut it so it would friction fit tightly in the middle of the tank separating one half from the other.
Here is an old photo when I still thought it might work as mechanical media.

I also stuff a bunch of SpringFlo bio media in the one half of the tank as well, plus I've added some other plumbing from the skimmer, so it doesn't really look like this anymore.

 

[Catfishnut]

Randy,

Thanks so much for describing the details of your system and your experiences with it. The information really helps me judge what I want to do to at least get started with mine.
I originally bought three rolls of Matala media, two green and one blue. Now that I have researched and discovered that the prefilters I am going to be using will be enough to remove the finer particulates, I won't have to worry about the Matala becoming clogged with muck. I believe that I can now go with two rolls of the grey Matala media to have more surface area for the bacterial biomass without fear of it becoming "gunked up". In your pix, the water coming through the system is crystal clear. That's the result which I am hoping for with my system.

I have been trying to engineer every stage of my filter system to be maintenance-friendly as well as self-sufficient. I intend to set this up at my cabin which is 25 miles away from my home and I may not be able to get out there to check on it daily or even weekly during the winter months. I therefore need to design everything with a failsafe operation mode.

Removal and cleaning of the Matala media rolls was not on my list of pleasant things to do during winter or any time for that matter. If it will remain clean and unclogged for months or years, I would be very happy. With my pre-filtering stages taking the particulates down to 100 microns, I should be safe here and can utilize the densest Matala media (the grey) to take advantage of the extra surface area for bacterial colonization.

So, now back to the water level monitoring discussion...

Sissy,

Please understand that I need to have some electronics involved here to control the pump. Just reading the level with a measuring stick won't suffice as I may not be there (at my cabin) to take that measurement. I need something to do this for me automatically and 100% of the time. Obviously, if the power goes out, everything quits. The aerators, the pumps, the water heaters, etc. So I must design my entire system to be able to withstand these power outages, at least for short durations anyway. One or two days at sub-zero temps might be overcome with plenty of insulation around the piping, but after that, I am afraid that lack of power will allow pipes to freeze and break. Not much one can do if that occurs but repair it all.

Gordy

 

[Mucky_Waters]

So essentially the Malata in my tanks functions as bio media now. I have considered using a aerator under the Malata media to supply the Nitrosonomas and Nitrobacter bacteria with more oxygen, but so far I haven't found this necessary as my ammonia and nitrite levels are always zero or nearly so. Also, as I said I added some extra plumbing from my skimmer line which has it's own pump that pumps water through a UV unit, up to a foam fractionator which contains a 6" x 4 ft tube full of bio media that the water showers through and eventually returns to the system via 4 tube outlets above the Malata tank seen below. The water returning to the Malata tank is well oxygenated going through the fractionator and is agitated again as it drops down on to the surface of the Malata tank water.

My pond is only a about 2000 gallons, so I feel the bio filter media system I'm employing is more then adequate for that size of pond and the volume of fish that I have. If and when my fish grow larger and/or become more numerous, and I start to see spikes in ammonia and nitrite, or nitrate levels, I'll start trying some things like the extra aeration to increase the efficiency of my bio filtration.I was also considering one day removing the Malata material and changing that whole tank into a moving bed filter, but for now it seems to work just fine as it is.
On a side note, the Malata material stays very clean, it does trap some stuff, but I only cleaned it once this year when I shut those filters down for the winter, and there was very little stuff in it to wash out.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Looks like we posted at the same time Gordy.

I should mention how I maintain my water level, I have mentioned it before in this forum but I'll mention it again. It may not work for what you want to do, but it works pretty well for me and is very very simple.
I employ a drip and drain flow through method. I have a controlled drip irrigation line dripping fresh water into the pond constantly, and a overflow area at the other end of the pond where the water slowly drains out. The overflow level is simply regulated by the height of the liner which I can adjust to the exact height I want. The water simply drains into a rock pit area I created when digging the hole for the pond.
The extra benefit of this it does a continuous water change while maintaining a perfect water level in the pond, and because the water is added so slowly I don't have to worry about chlorine levels because if there is any chlorine in the water it disperses and/or is neutralized before it can ever amount to any harmful levels. Of course if you are on a well you probably don't have to worry about chlorine.

 

[dieselplower]

What I do is look outside and see if I need to top up.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

What I do is look outside and see if I need to top up.

Jees! Why didn't I think of that? :dunno: