Vinegar to Lower PH

[TJeep_1999]

I'm using vinegar to lower my ponds PH. My main question is how long will the PH remain lower using this method? Should I be testing Daily? Weekly? Monthly? once it is down to the correct level? Mainly I'm curious how long it lasts. Thank you!

 

[Mmathis]

Vinegar? IDK. But seems like you should be monitoring it very closely. Maybe what you need to be worried about is the KH level.

What is your pH running and what is your KH level?

 

[WaterGardener]

No it won't last. Unless the pH is over 10, there is no reason to lower it. Goldfish and Koi will adjust to a large range of pH. Don't try to achieve a particular number. That isn't significant. The important thing is to keep it stable and that depends on your KH level.

 

[TJeep_1999]

I had two goldfish do rapid (2-3 day) color changes to 100% white and read it could be the result of high PH. My PH was in the 9+ range, but since my test only goes to 9 I'm not sure how much higher it was or if it was exactly at 9.

Great... I have two PH test bottles (low & high) and now it sounds like I need KH level testing? What is the difference between the two... meaning why is KH more important to monitor than PH?

 

[Mmathis]

Put simply (because that’s the only way I can understand…), KH measures the ability of the water to buffer against rapid pH changes. KH stands for carbonate hardness, and then you start getting to chemistry — which is what it’s all about! RAPID pH SWINGS are your enemy….not the actual pH. As long as the pH stays consistent, your fish will adapt (well, within reason). Many on here have high pH levels, and their fish do fine. What you don’t want is for the pH to swing by wide ranges, or try to aim for a particular pH NUMBER. Stable is what you want. A high KH helps prevent that from happening. You can raise the KH by adding baking soda to the water, or (what I do) adding something like crushed oyster shells. The oyster shells break down over time, so give a longer lasting fix.

The Importance of Carbonate Hardness (KH) in your pond

The Importance of Carbonate Hardness (KH) in your KOI Pond The most overlooked, yet most important water parameter of your KOI Pond is KH. KH is the measure of the Carbonate Hardness in your Pond. Carbonate Hardness is simply the amount of Carlcium Carbonate in our ponds. Why is it important...

www.koitotheworld.com

 

[WaterGardener]

You need to use the high pH kit. The other won't be very accurate at the level of your pH.

Mmathis is right. A sufficient level of KH will keep the pH stable and that is what is important.

KH is alkalinity and will buffer the acid produced during the nitrogen cycle, and since that cycle is continuous, it does get depleted over time and will need to be boosted. A level of at least 100ppm is good, but more is not a problem. Mine is kept around 200ppm.

If you don't have tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, those are also important for a healthy pond. It's about more than pH.

 

[Mmathis]

@WaterGardener Yep, the “chemistry” is an interactive process, and it’s all about keeping everything balanced.

 

[TJeep_1999]

You need to use the high pH kit. The other won't be very accurate at the level of your pH.

Mmathis is right. A sufficient level of KH will keep the pH stable and that is what is important.

KH is alkalinity and will buffer the acid produced during the nitrogen cycle, and since that cycle is continuous, it does get depleted over time and will need to be boosted. A level of at least 100ppm is good, but more is not a problem. Mine is kept around 200ppm.

If you don't have tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, those are also important for a healthy pond. It's about more than pH.

Appreciate the details around KH. I will look into this more...

I am aware what chemistry is about more than PH. I actually test for ammonia, nitrite, etc... This post was specifically around PH testing which is why I only listed those tests. As stated above I do have a high PH test kit. Ammonia, nitrite, phosphates, Saline, and nitrate all test fine. I wasn't even really worried about the high PH until I had multiple fish losing color and turning white. I spent a lot of time collecting different colors/pasterns and I'm not thrilled about the change to say the least. The color change happened to several fish at once literately overnight which has me believing it's not genetics. High PH has been known to cause this issues and as fish are otherwise healthy and all other water parameters are fine. I'm trying to bring PH down to get their color to come back.

 

[WaterGardener]

I've not seen any evidence that high pH will contribute to a goldfish changing color. Could you point me to where you got that information? I would like to look into that.

Goldfish coloring is not necessarily stable. They can change drastically and quickly at times. Changing colors is not a problem or any sign of a disease, it's normal and natural for them to do so. I seriously doubt if the colors they originally had will come back with a change in pH.

Trying to adjust your pH is not advised. You will be constantly chasing that number that you are looking for, so your pH will be bouncing back and forth. That is not a good thing for your fish, creating a lot of stress and making them vulnerable to infections and diseases. It's much better to keep your pH stable, whatever the number is.

 

[Mmathis]

Some goldfish will change color, seemingly overnight. This can be a normal part of their genetics, and is not necessarily anything you can do about it.

 

[TJeep_1999]

I have looked into this A LOT and fully understand that it is common for goldfish to change color, but I think it is extremely rare for several fish to all turn white all at once in less than a week.

Why Is My Goldfish Turning White? All Possible Causes

If you see your goldfish turning white, you probably have a lot of questions. Fortunately, this guide has the answers. Click here to get started!

www.aquariumsource.com

 

[WaterGardener]

I would think this would be possible if all those fish were from the same spawn, having the same genetics, especially if they are in a new environment. How long after your brought these fish home did they start to change?

This is from the article that you posted:

But the reality is that they’re quite sensitive to changes in their habitat.

This could include things like pH level, temperature, and even hardness. pH balance, in particular, is known to make goldfish lose their luster a bit.

I don't see anything about high pH causing color changes. It talks about pH balance, which I interpret as the stability that Mmathis and I referred to. Nothing there says the color will return unless it is a result of illness. It actually says this: There’s not much that you can do to address this change.

Sorry, but I think your fish are what they are and there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy them as they are or return them to the store.

 

[Jhn]

Agree with @Mmathis and @WaterGardener, stop trying to chase a number with ph. Also, never heard of high ph causing color changes In goldfish.

Look at articles critically, see no mention of high ph or really any scientific evidence/study in the cited article to support said theory. Looked at some of the other articles by the author seems to be just regurgitating info, some of which is incomplete and inaccurate.

 

[Mmathis]

Why Do Goldfish Change Color? (Science & Causes) - Pond Informer

Why do goldfish change color? Why has my goldfish turned black or white? Information on the science of color change and what to expect.

pondinformer.com