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Message: [QUOTE="Otter, post: 39348, member: 723"] Assuming the inlet and out let are in the same place, ups and downs don't create any more head than horizontal curves. But any time you go up and then down instead of down and then up, gasses can be a problem. Of course the pump would send them back down the pipe, but if the pipe went very far down, they might come back to the pump instead of going all the way out the falls. But it's better to have the pump below the water line anyway. This has three big advantages. The pump would be self-priming. The earth will help block the sound of the pump. And as koikeepr said, the pump will be more efficient with positive suction head instead of negative suction head. [/QUOTE]