too much dechorinater?

gblazzo

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just did a partial water change today and added 2 ounces of dechlorinater which bottle said is good for 160 gallons, but when I checked my water meter it said I only added 72 gallons.
Will the additional dechlorinater bother my koi or is it , I dont know, somehow neutral?
 

DrCase

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You should be OK once the chlorine is out it cant take any more out
 
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You would be better getting a Dechlorination unit which goes on the end of your hose that way you can stop using dechlorinator.
What is happening to your koi are they reacting in a strange way or just swimming about as normal.
All bottles should carry a warning of accidental overdose they should also carry a phone number to contact the company that makes it so you could contact them, who is the maker ?
There iis another thread where the dechlorination unit is mentioned check out the link on it for one of these units which I may add do thousands of gallons before you need to change the charcoal cartridges saving you a small fortune on liquid Dechloriator

rgrds

Dave
 

gblazzo

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thanks both of you for responding. Dave Aquascience is the brand of the dechlorinator and there are no warnings on the label about overdosing. I did notice a couple koi holding their pectoral fins out for a bit but maybe I just got paranoid about that. Today is the first real warm weather in western Pa. in awhile and possibly they were just behaving that way because the water temp got up to 50F. And thanks for the tip about the unit for the garden hose I'll definitley check into that.
 
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Dave, in the US we have to be very aware of chloramine, which the hose end units do not remove. I would venture a guess that most municipal water will have detectable amounts of chloramine. And gb, I would not think the small amount you overdosed would be a problem, but you could stick an air stone in the pond to supplement oxygen until it all off gasses. You could look up the MSDS online for more complete info.
 

crsublette

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gblazzo, you are probably ok.

If anything, then your pH will change for just a very short duration, which could cause the fish to act sporatic. Most of these products contain minerals, other fish supplementals to increase their protective slime coat, and sodium thiosulfate. Sodium thiosulfate is what neutralizes the chlorine, but the way it is made in a bottle could cause problems by causing the sodium thiosulfate to go bad due to the compound's decomposition, which might result in the production of hydrogen sulfide (toxic to fish). The extra dechlorinator has a short shelf life in water and will be broken down by bacteria.

When in doubt, I always google the product. Often, the product will not state everything on the bottle and reading the MSDS would be a good idea as well.

gblazzo, are you positive it is chlorine and not chloramine ?? You can find out easy by using a pool test kit or calling your local water plant. Most water plants use chloramine instead of chlorine due to health concerns and due to the chloramine stays in the water longer. Sometimes the water plants will use both.

Chlorine is a gas and this gas eventually dissipates. Chloramine is created by the water plant combining the chlorine gas with ammonia so that the chlorine does not dissipate out of the water.

Chlorine can dissipate out of the water naturally by just setting it out in a container for a day (i would agitate it with a small fountain pump), very slowly trickle driping the water into the tank, or by spraying the water into the air as it is being added to the water. However, if you are doing big water changes, then it is best to add the dechlorinator before the water change (that is after old water taken out). This method does not work for chloramines since it is bound in the water with the ammonia.

For chloramines, you have to use a dechlorinator or a chloramine carbon block filter. Keep in mind that, when the chlorine is nuetralized out of chloramine, then this releases ammonia into the water. If your bio-filter is built well, then the extra ammonia will be easily consumed by the bacteria.

I just did a quick google and found a Chloramine carbon block filter that uses a garden hose connector. I don't know anything about it nor I do not know how often these filters have to be replaced.

Honestly, I would not use any of those dechlorinator pond products. If you want to though, SeaChem is an excellent company. Otherwise, I would just use Sodium Thiosulfate (ST) crystals and it is cheaper, but, first, if you want to use ST, then you need to know exactly your pond's gallons and know how much chlorine (or chloramine) is in your source water. Once you know this, then just add the appropriate measurement of crystals into the water. I would definitely not make a pre-made solution out of the crystals due to the compound's decomposition possibly going bad. For the ST crystal measurement, the correct amount is 2 to 7 parts sodium thiosulfate to 1 part chlorine. Parts per million = mg/L; so, if the concentration of chlorine is 2 ppm (from your source water), then you would need 4 to 14 mg of sodium thiosulfite for every liter of water. 100 US gallons = 379 L, so for every 100 gallons, you would need 1.5 to 5.3 grams of sodium thiosulfite. Depending on the crystal size, a teaspoon is about 6 grams. It would be a good idea to get a gram scale if you want to use the ST crystals. If it is practical to do this in a seperate container, then this is best. Add the crystals before you put in the new water (that is after the old water is taken out).
 
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Though the water compaies in the UK made noises about choramines they never followed up on it, I remember it caused great discussion at the time, all the Liquid water treatments are now made to remove it..
This I believe is the same sort of unit that crsublette has linked for you

http://www.vyair.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=68

They do various sizes of filter and they last as I perviously stated for thoudands of gallons (however we choose to change each cartridge once a year).
The are relitively cheap and very easy to fit they even supply the spanner., depending on the size of your pond you can use larger models of the one shown here

rgrds

Dave
 

fishin4cars

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just did a partial water change today and added 2 ounces of dechlorinater which bottle said is good for 160 gallons, but when I checked my water meter it said I only added 72 gallons.
Will the additional dechlorinater bother my koi or is it , I dont know, somehow neutral?
If you dosed for 160 gallons I doubt you will notice any problems. I've run tests with other chlorine neutralizers to see how much was needed to overdose. actually poured a half a bottle of stress coat in a bag of water with a half dozen feeder guppies to see if it could be overdosed. End result, I ended up with about 30 guppies in the bag 24 hours later. No deaths, is this typical for all chlorine neutralizers? I honestly can't answer that. I just happen to have a customer that said she killed all her fish with an overdose of stress coat. I showed her the results and told her I felt that she probably didn't adjust temp. or another factor when she did her water change that may have shocked the fish.
What concerns me is the koi in a 72 gallon pond, How many do you have and how large? What are you water parameters before and after the water change? 72 gallons may be large enough for a few very small koi temporarily, but if they are actually growing and thriving, two baby koi should easily outgrow a 72 gallon pond in less than a year. I have had 5 new born fry out grow a 300 gallon pond in under 6 months and that's 1 day old babies I started with. In 6 months all five were well over 6" each and I couldn't maintain good water quality on a regular basis. A 2" koi should be between 1-3 months old depending on how fast it grows. At one year they should be between 6"-10"+!
 

koiguy1969

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theres another factor that may be in or against your favor also... just as a random example... if your dechlorinator is rated at 2ppm and your water from the tap carries 5 or 6ppm you'd need triple the dose anyways.
i built my own declorinator unit out of 2" pvc. 5' long packed tight with activated carbon about 2/3 way and zeolite the other. capped on the ends with 1/2" hose nipples. cut a 10' hose in half and clamped it on the ends. blocked the inside of the pipe ends with foam to keep the activated carbon and zeolite in. th A.C absorbs chlorine and breaks the ammonia bond to the chlorine in chloramines. the zeolite does one thing absorbs ammonias.
 
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fishin4cars said:
If you dosed for 160 gallons I doubt you will notice any problems. I've run tests with other chlorine neutralizers to see how much was needed to overdose. actually poured a half a bottle of stress coat in a bag of water with a half dozen feeder guppies to see if it could be overdosed. End result, I ended up with about 30 guppies in the bag 24 hours later. No deaths, is this typical for all chlorine neutralizers? I honestly can't answer that. I just happen to have a customer that said she killed all her fish with an overdose of stress coat. I showed her the results and told her I felt that she probably didn't adjust temp. or another factor when she did her water change that may have shocked the fish.
What concerns me is the koi in a 72 gallon pond, How many do you have and how large? What are you water parameters before and after the water change? 72 gallons may be large enough for a few very small koi temporarily, but if they are actually growing and thriving, two baby koi should easily outgrow a 72 gallon pond in less than a year. I have had 5 new born fry out grow a 300 gallon pond in under 6 months and that's 1 day old babies I started with. In 6 months all five were well over 6" each and I couldn't maintain good water quality on a regular basis. A 2" koi should be between 1-3 months old depending on how fast it grows. At one year they should be between 6"-10"+!
Yes I have to agree koi need space to grow 72 gallons isnt enough how many koi are in this pond, do you have a larger pond that they can go to
Thermal shock can be a killer we use the trickle method of water changing during the winter months, the trick is to slowly add water to the pond allowing the ambient temperature of the pond to warm the water trickling in.
It takes a long time but if done correctly you shouldnt notice any great change perhaps .1 of a degree nothing more ,
Weve never heard of stress coat killing fish before either .

rgrds

Dave
 
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Koiguy could you possibly show us some photo's of this, one thing I've learned about you guys in my short time on this forum is some of you are pretty inventive fish keepers.
I have a foam fractionator built by a friend of mine cant wait to try it this late spring / early summer when the covers come off .at last.
Thought we could start early this year as we did last year when it was unseasonably warm, but winter is back with a vengence here in the UK , we are hoping that tihis is its last blast.
I must remember to recharge the spare bag of zeolite this week and order some more lythaqua.
rgds

Dave
 

gblazzo

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Thanks to everyone for your input. My koi havn't had any noticable ill effects from my over or under dosing the dechlorinator. And just to clarify to Larkin and anyone who misunderstood, I changed 72 gallons of water from my 1675 gallon pond , didn't mean that I had a 72 gallon pond.I felt since we had a nice warmup here in western Pa. for a couple days it might be good to get rid of some old stale water since its been frozen over with only a deicer in it and the pumps and filter shut down the past few months. And again thank you all for responding. This is a great website with so many people willing to help each other out. I feel fortunate to have found such a good group of fellow ponders!
 
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Im glad i read this Thread, I always skimp on the Dechlorinator of fear that i might "Overdose", but no worries anymore! :goldfish:
 

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