Think I Made a Big Mistake - Can't Get the Water Clear!

[MelissaR7]

Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum and just completed my first pond. It is 800 gallons, 4.5 feet deep partially above and partially below ground. It has been set up for 5 weeks and has a bog filter and a fountain.

I created this pond for my turtles who needed an upgrade from their indoor tank. I live in Southern California so they will be outside year round. In all my research I found that turtles who will be hibernating outside should have mud on the bottom of their pond to burrow in during the winter so after completing the pond my husband put 6 inches of fill dirt from the hole we dug into the pond. I think this may have been a huge mistake because nothing is working to get the water clear.

Everything in the pond is happy, the turtles are doing well, the mosquito fish are breeding like crazy and the goldfish are getting big. The bog plants and floating plants are all growing really fast but I can't see more than a 8 inches or so down. I have tried flocculant and also put Nu Foam in my fountain and rinsed that and gave it time hoping everything would just settle out on it's own but no luck. I have tried opening the bottom drain on the bog and allowing any dirty water to come out... There have been times where I thought it was improving and I could see maybe 2 feet down but then it clouds up again. The water color is like clay...

My bog has two flush out pipes to clear the diffuser bar and a bottom drain and it is doing it's job catching sediment because if I even disturb a plant more clay colored water comes pouring out of the bog.

I am at a loss and feeling that I may have to drain the pond, take out all the mud and then refill it and start over. I would rather not do that since everything inside is thriving but I can't live with so little visibility. When I put the dirt in I knew I would probably never be able to see the bottom and that's OK with me, but this won't work!

Does anyone have any insight on whether I am better to open the bottom drain on the bog and try to rinse the clay from the pea gravel or if the only real solution is to get in with a shop vac and empty the pond? Your help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Waterbug]

I would rather not do that since everything inside is thriving but I can't live with so little visibility. When I put the dirt in I knew I would probably never be able to see the bottom and that's OK with me, but this won't work!

I'm not sure I'm reading that right. You'd be OK if you couldn't see the bottom but you do want it clearer than it is? I'm assuming yes.

And I'm assuming it's been basically this cloudy the entire 5 weeks.

That it seems to clear and then get cloudy again makes me think the turtles are stirring up the mud. Goldfish can also do that to some degree. Or it has to do with something like a pump going odd and on. Or other critters.

It's really impossible to tell. Left alone, no pump, no critters, the clay will settle. So it's all these other things that make predictions difficult. It could completely clear tomorrow. It could stay cloudy forever.

What you have is what I would call a Wildlife Pond. The mud isn't just good for your turtles but all kinds of animals and plants. Generally I'd expect a Wildlife Pond to settle in 2-4 years. What happens is plants grow (algae, etc.) and die, leaves blow into the pond and sink and rot. This creates a mat of decomposing organic matter that covers the clay. As that layer gets thicker and thicker the clay has less and less chance to stir up. Slowly the suspended clay will sink and be covered. Some people call this a pond being "balanced", not my fav term, but it means the pond is maturing, becoming more of what we expect a Wildlife Pond to be.

Wildlife Ponds are strange in that the less you do the better they do. Everytime you flush stuff, run the fountain, add floc and other chemicals you set back the pond. A Water Garden can be forced to be exactly what you want with chemicals and equipment and word. A Wildlife Pond can't really be forced. They take time because it takes a lot of different critters to finish the pond...you only start the process. But there are ways to jump start the process. Don't flush the bog. Just let it fill up with dirt. The bog isn't helping you. Get rid of the Goldfish...I'm not saying you should get rid of the Goldfish...I'm saying if to want to speed up the pond maturing getting rid of the Goldfish would do that. It's just info. You get to decide for yourself. The Goldfish can come back in a year or two when the water clears. You can add leaves, grass clippings, etc. This makes a huge mess, but depends on how much you add how big a mess. This will grow lots of bacteria which will later fed other bugs and you have yourself a food chain. They all start working on the organic matter which sinks and creates the mat. That can speed up maturing, but sure isn't for everyone.

And you add as many plants as you can. That's more organic matter.

Option two is to drain and remove all the soil. The bog is going to be a real problem getting clean. Basically it has to be emptied and the gravel washed. You could flush it forever and still have clay in there. You said the bog "is working" because you're seeing dirty water when flushed. "Working" is kind of a subjective term. It's not really possible to clean/flush a bog. Yes you see dirt, but most is still in the bog. But that's your call. Not trying to bum out bog enthusiasts...just different kinds of ponds are built and kept differently.

After the clay is gone you can replace it with pea gravel or sand. Both will cloud the water but for a much shorter time, days, Rinsing the gravel/or sand isn't really an option. It's like flushing a blog, just end less.You really need to set up a wash table if you want to go that far. No fun and not really needed imo.

The gravel and sand will provide a pretty darn good base for the food chain.

Or switch to a Water Garden and go bare liner. That type of pond is very easy to get to be whatever you want.

I'm not sure but I doubt turtles would need to burrow into mud for winter in S Cal. You can bury a tub of clay soil in the gravel, or just on bare liner, if you really want.

 

[Tula]

I recently learned a lady with a near by pond, does just that, puts tubs of clay, soil or kitty litter,on the bottom of her liner pond and her turtles hibernate in them for the winter!

 

[Troutredds]

I had relatives in Laguna Beach with turtles in a garden pond back in the early 80s. When we'd visit them in the winter, the turtles would be out - basking in the sun. I still recall those turtles sometimes on cold wet winter days here in Seattle. Those turtles, like most inhabitants of southern California, never hibernate in winter. Would you, if it was 76 degrees and sunny in January?

 

[MelissaR7]

Thanks for all your advice! I guess I'll be grabbing the shovel and switching to sand this weekend!

 

[MelissaR7]

I am going to drain and refill today. I would prefer to use a few inches of play sand on the bottom for a more natural look and to give the inhabitants those benefits but wondering how those who have sand clean the bottom. A net to keep the sand in but get the other stuff out? My pump is on a milk crate so about a foot off the bottom, I'm assuming if I went with sand this would be OK for the pump or would it constantly be getting sand sucked into it?

 

[Waterbug]

A foot off the bottom the pump will be out of the sand.

You should consider not adding fish until after the water settles after adding the sand. The water will be cloudy for a time and that stuff is considered by some (Doc Johnson I think) to be hard on gills. Should settle pretty fast, day or two.

If you really want to clean the sand it can be done will an aquarium gravel vacuum. You have to tweak the suction so the sand is lifted, but isn't sucked all the way up through the vacuum. If you plan on doing this I would consider using coarse sand instead of play sand. Even easier is pea gravel.

Or you can use a powerful vac (shop vac, etc.) and dump the waste into a huge tub so the same collects. Then wash the sand and put it back into the pond. I can't imagine a more difficult process however. It's something a person only does once.

I'm not aware of any benefits to having these materials on the bottom. If sand is never cleaned there can be some benefit because of micro organisms setting up home in the top layers, but these are tricky. I'd have serious doubts that would happen in a Water Garden to any degree that would have an impact. Just too much waste settling on the bottom for the organisms to survive.

 

[Shdwdrgn]

I have sand in the bottom of my pond. I have a coarse net with 1/4" holes that works great for getting out the leaves, then give it a few shakes underwater to let the sand fall out, and you can pull out all the muck. I do have to inspect every net-full before tossing it to make sure I'm not throwing out any of my trapdoor snails or newly-acquired clams.

Suggestions for sand... do NOT use play sand. From what I have heard, that contains all sort of different materials. I have found clean white sand (I think it's 100% quartz?) from two different sources -- Pool/spa supply stores carry 50 pound bags for around $15 (sold as pool filter sand). Also I have found it at hardware/lumber stores sold for sandblasting or to mix with concrete, and these places sell it for around $15 for a 100-pound bag. The quartz sand also has a very low level of dust, and the water should clear up within just a few hours of pouring in the sand.

I like the white color on the bottom because it helps make the fish stand out better, but this could be bad if you have herons or other predators.