Some newbie looking for some input!

[YKdave]

Hi guys (and gals), new to the forum and more or less new to the whole pond thing...

When I bought my place (2 years ago), the previous owners had (poorly) installed a small pond and a creek. Though overall it wasn't the nicest job, I applaud their efforts and creativity as its sole purpose was not aesthetics.

Unfortunately in this part of the world we have very little to no top soil or even overburden. Just huge outcroppings of bedrock and some muskeg filling the low spots! When the land was developed in my area their was a lot of sand used to backfill, and every spring their is a large flow of water that comes off of the bedrock out back that saturates and floods mine and my neighbors back yards because of this. Which of course kicks the crap out of the lawn that barely survives as it is due to the lack of soil, and not to mention the toll it takes on the entire property.

Anyways, back to the point. The previous owners came up with a pretty ingenious solution. They installed this creek and small pond. The creek in the spring time catches all of the water running down from the bedrock (luckily most of it collects in a pond on the rocks and runs down this one place), funnels it into the pond where I can pump it out. Although this doesn't work 100%, it does save the majority of the water from saturating the property.

The pond is also currently set up with a pump for the 2 little pissers as well as their bing a buried hose that runs to the top of the creek

Now, I have been pondering the thought of having a fish or 2 in the pond. The current pond is pretty small, and although it would probably be ok if it was filled to the top, when it was installed their was a piece cut out at the back for the creek to enter the pond. So it only holds water in the lower section (1.5x1.5'x12"). So I'll be looking to obviously expand the pond to be able to support a few fish.

My biggest concern, is how might this effect the fish with runoff draining into the pond? For the most part it only happens in the spring during melt, but if we do get a lot of rain, it will start flowing again.

The fish would have to be brought indoors over the winter due to our awesome climate, so I'm not too concerned about the spring time runoff as I can wait for that to dry up before moving the fish into the pond.

Any ideas, thoughts, input?

Thanks,

 

[YKdave]

Also, as i havent dug around in this particular part of the yard, im not sure how much sand ive got before i hit the bedrock (you can see an outcropping of bedrock on the RH side of that pic)

Im thinking i may have to elevate the new pond slightly to add the depth i would like, to keep the fish happy. Though im a bit limited due to the whole drainage ordeal, as their is only about ~2ft of rise from the current pond to the back of the yard where the water enters. of course, elevating the pond would all but eliminate the creek, but thats something i could live with since its pretty much just a dry river bed 99% of the time. I prefer not to run the 1500gal/hr pond pump much right now as it seems a bit pointless and i hate to waste power at nearly $.30/kwh (our prices are retarded up here! and they are going up again soon). So really, i would rather have a smaller pump running a fountain/waterfall not only for the purpose of aesthetics, but to help support some fish, rather than just circulating water up the creek for nothing...

I am liking the thought of having it elevated though, even it it was only a few inches. That would make it alot nicer during grass trimming, as currently it makes one heck of a mess out of the creek/pond!

Another 'bonus' i guess, if i do raise it above ground, i can move it over and incorporate the bedrock into a waterfall or some other type of water display...

Dont mind my awesome paint skills... just something that popped into my mind as an idea

 

[sissy]

welcome and your water looks clear but how deep is the pond for your winters .What is in the runoff you get ,dirt or silt or is it fairly clear after a heavy rain .You are better of with shubbies or goldfish koi get very big fast .You don't mention how big or deep it is and how big you want to go .What about pump and filters or a deicer for winter .Colleen from Canada is on here she would know more about that :cheerful: .Look for a pump by wattage

 

[YKdave]

pond size would depend on the fish i guess, as well as physical limitations (yard space and bedrock)

Winters im not worried about, this sucker is going to freeze solid. just to give you an idea, if you havent seen ice road truckers first season (that was us!), when we go ice fishing, we take 2 of our deuce and a halfs (military 6x6 if you dont know what that is!) if and a small fleet of 1ton diesel trucks, park them all within a 75sq/ft area and go fishing! typical ice thickness around here is 4-6ft on slow/no moving water.

a small pond like this is going to freeze sold regardless of what is done. so i do plan on housing any fish i have, indoors for the winter months. Thus Koi, like you mentioned is not a great idea, because at this point i dont even have an indoor aquarium, let alone having a massive one to house the Koi after a year or 2!

The runoff is usually pretty clear, as it colllects in a pond ontop the hill, before it runs down into the yard. so most of the junk settles up there. the current pond clears up great if the pump is running, circulating water through the creek and getting my one winged gargoyle and otter squirter running. if not, obviously it turns into a bog pretty fast LOL. but even when it is full on bog water, a day of circulating the water clears it up nicely.

As far as space goes, the lawn is apppx 4m from the fence to the gravel, so i would be looking at appx 4m long x ~1.5m wide x whatever depth i can get (i'd hope to get a minimum depth of 2ft, with at least a deep bowl nearest the house, hopefully 1m+ deep). so i guess we would be looking at roughly 1000 gal depending on what i can achieve for depth.

 

[YKdave]

Just did a few tests and It looks like the new pond is going to have to be raised if I want any kind of depth

At the current bend in the creek I've got 1ft to bedrock. At the right hand side of the current pond I've got 18", at the left hand side I've got 3.5ft. Looks like it gets nice and deep to the left, but I would rather not go any farther to the left than the current setup.

Edit: and it looks like their isn't as much of a grade as I had thought. Just tossed out the string and level. I've got 14" slope from where I'd like the water level at the back of the yard to where the water would sit above grade nearest the house

Not the end of the world, I'll still have at least 4ft of water at the deep end, the rest of it may be pretty shallow...

 

[YKdave]

Now it's quite apparent why the pond doesn't hold much water....

This is my first time tearing it apart, I didn't realize that they cut so much out of the preformed pond for the creek, and with the hose even lower than that!

Also note how they all but destroyed the preformed pond during install. They just used big enough rocks to get it to fit lol!

 

[YKdave]

So there's a general idea of what I'm thinking (see pic), the line would be my desired water level line. im also thinking i may try and build a bog at the high side, which can help with any debris that may come in through the stream during rain/spring runoff

Looking at 25ft in length, 14ft wide at the deep end and about 4ft wide at the creek. I would say average depth for the far half to be 1.5ft and 3ft at the deep end. this is going to be much larger than i had originally figured, i think ill be breaking 3000gal here...

I would like to be able to use the outcropping of bedrock as the 'side' and bottom of the pond, I think that would look neat with a true bedrock bottom, as well as maximizing my limited space.

Which brings my next problem. If I do that, then a liner is out of the question, I would have to try and seal any fractures in the bedrock and probably use concrete walls for the remainder.

Of course this concerns me as far as frost jacking and fracturing things... any other ideas that might work?

 

[addy1]

they sure did, with a little work that will make a neat pond and stream

Wish I could help you with frost jacking and fracturing, we don't have that here, no clue

 

[YKdave]

well, the stream will be pretty much gone, just the foot or 2 left of it once it hits my property line. of course the original stream beyond my property will remain untouched but not very visible due to the fence.

i would like to use the outcropping of bedrock (far RH side of last pic) for a waterfall. again using the natural bedrock i think this is going to look awesome, especially for a waterfall. But of course that still brings me back to the whole issue of not being able to use a liner...

 

[SE18]

why not cement the sides, add a liner and then add cement over the liner (sandwich technique). You can dye the cement any color you like or add gravel to it etc

 

[YKdave]

a liner willl be the last resort, as liners are not available anywhere remotely close to locally, and for the fact that i reallly want to try doing this with the natural rock

So ive got a few ideas, from my other thread and through some brain storming. im going to give this a shot, worst case scenario it doesnt pan out and i have to throw a liner in it. not the end of the world, and the worst part will already be done!


So, as it turs out, it looks like this is going to end up being roughly 25ft in length, 4ft wide at one end and 14ft wide at the other (deep) end. estimating ~3000gal. though its hard to say until i get the entire thing dug out and see exactly where the bedrock runs.

now im looking into the future as far as what i can somewhat easily attain, as far as accessories go.

Like i said, i want to make a waterfall at the rear of the bedrock.

Im looking at a 2500gal/hr pump, tossed into a skimmer, which would directly feed the waterfall. though it may not happen right away, i like the idea of having the far end of the pond turned into a bog. so the waterfall water would run down into the bog and drain into the main pond. good idea, bad, otherwise?

Aside from that, i was also looking at using another ~400gal/hr pump (maybe a tad larger) to run a water feature in the middle of the pond, as well as a couple squirters, just for a little more visual appeal and to turn over a bit more water. I also like the idea of at least 2 pumps, although the ~400gal/hr pump wouldnt be sufficient in the long term, if i did have a failure on the large pump, it could buy the pond and the fish a little bit of time!

Aside from this, i dont think ill get too carried away with accessories, though i may put a couple of lights in there. though they really are only useful for a month or so during the summer as we have 24hr or near 24hr daylight most of the summer!

Though i lack no common sense, like i say im new to this whole ordeal. so feel free to throw in anything you feel may be useful!

I guess my biggest concern now, would be filtration. i see some guys have had great success with filtering the water through a bog alone, with no other filtering... should i look into other filtration? for the few dollars its worth, ill probably use a filter setup on the small pump...

 

[addy1]

I use just a bog / pea gravel / plant filter take your pick at the naming. My pond water is pumped under the gravel it up flows through the gravel plants then back into the pond. The only problem with a bog type area with water running over it, the water won't be going through the gravel unless you have is such the water has to run through to get back into the pond. The top of the gravel would get covered with muck eventually. Water takes the easiest route. With a lot of plants they will help filter as the water runs back into the pond.

 

[YKdave]

Yes that may be a tough one...

Im wondering, ive seen guys pump the water in from the bottom of the bog, and let the water flow up and 'spill' out of the bog.

Has anyone tried a 'downflow' bog? where the water runs in ontop of the bog, and drains through the peagravel and runs back into the main pond below the waterline. i suppose their is still going to be a buildup ontop of the rocks over time, but i assume the filtering would be alot more efficient that just flowing across the top of the bog.

something like that would work best for me, given my best option is to use the waterfall water to run down into the bog.

 

[addy1]

I had a small down flow bog, a whiskey barrel that had a water fall going into it, the water was to go through the pea gravel and then waterfall into the pond out of the bottom of the barrel. I had to monitor it a lot, the pea gravel would just get covered with stuff, next thing that happened it would overflow, the water would not go through but over and out of the barrel.

The top barrel was a up flow mini bog, that water falled into the down flow barrel.

If you have the walls high enough the water by gravity would be forced to go down through the gravel, hopefully lol I have not tried a down flow bog / gravel / plant filter since the whiskey barrel ones.

 

[YKdave]

hmm, that doesnt sound promising LOL

I dont have 'alot' of height to work with in the main pond to have the waterfall flow into it and drain down into the pond, so i may have to try a raised bog, maybe even build it ontop of the bedrock beside the waterfall, have it upflow and pour down into the main pond. my next fun task with the bog, is finding something i can plant in there. and hopefully something that i wont have to re-plant every spring!