I need some advice on how to seam my pvc liner. Where i purchased my liner didnt carry a big enough liner so i bought 2 and figured i could seam them with silicone, wrong. What can i do to save my project with out spending another 1000 on a new liner?
seaming pvc liners
- Thread starter coralnut123
- Start date
They can be "glued" which is a solvent weld, heat welded with a machine or a double sided tape (seaming tape) can be used. The method should be specified by the liner's manufacturer because each material is different even when all called PVC. Thickness can also effect method. Any decent liner seller will seam liner to any size you want.
I don't know how large your liners are but you say $1000? That's like a 45'x45' liner, 35,000 gal pond. If we're talking about that size, given your experience level, I would not attempt a seam. Options would be to sell the current liners for what you can get and chalk up the loss to experience which does have value. Another option is to build two connected ponds, one pond being at least 1" higher so the liners can be overlapped without a water tight seam.
IMO recycled PVC billboard material is superior to PVC pond liner and costs about 80% less. It's a ply material which I think is better. But that's not saying much since we're talking about the bare minimum type liner here.
I don't know how large your liners are but you say $1000? That's like a 45'x45' liner, 35,000 gal pond. If we're talking about that size, given your experience level, I would not attempt a seam. Options would be to sell the current liners for what you can get and chalk up the loss to experience which does have value. Another option is to build two connected ponds, one pond being at least 1" higher so the liners can be overlapped without a water tight seam.
IMO recycled PVC billboard material is superior to PVC pond liner and costs about 80% less. It's a ply material which I think is better. But that's not saying much since we're talking about the bare minimum type liner here.
WB... doing another pond this year, and I have to ask... WHAT kind of liner, and where, are you finding a 45 x 45 liner for $1000? Before tax, and with our contractors discounted, we pay almost $0.85 sq ft ... I just checked one of the pond sites that we order from http://www.pondliner.com/c-12-firestone-pondgard-45-mil-epdm-pond-liners.aspx and with shipping, the same liners are almost $0.89 sq ft ...
My 2 liners are 20x20 each. I have a bridge where the 2 liners over lap. They overlap by about 5 feet, and its the narrowest area of the pond, about 3.5 feet wide. Thought about just building it up there since its under the bridge and making it 2 ponds. If the build up settels and goes lower than the water level would it still leak? Gonna keep the liners overlaped. The pond is about 2.5 feet deep throughout the whole pond excluding the shelves for plants.
Are you absolutely sure your liner is PVC? It could be EDPM. I ask because of the cost and the fact that EDPM is joined together in a completely different manner.coralnut123 said:
Yes the liner is PVC. I ordered it from sun-terra. If i were to build the pond up where the 2 liners overlapto lets say only 4 inches deep, the top liner in the direction of the pump ( mag 24, 2400 gph) would the chances of leaking be just as great? There is still about 4 foot of overlap.
$0.85 for a contractor's price? Do they at least take you out to dinner too? I don't know, maybe it's more expensive in MA for some reason.capewind said:
Just FYI, I've fell into a little trick that's paid off for me. I was buying something and had been in the hole so was pretty dirty and the sales person asked if I was a contractor because they gave a 10% discount. That's a touchy subject because I wasn't a contractor and it depended on who you asked whether a contractor's license was required or not. Electrical and water supply certainly. The rest, I didn't think so. Anyways I said "No, I'm a designer". Which is true. I already knew designers weren't licensed in CA. Well doesn't her face light up and she asks for a card, which I didn't have but said I was online so she checked my website. That's all it took and I got a 25% discount which surprised the heck out of me. Turns out lots of places give designers a higher discount than contractors. The idea seems to be if a store can hook the designer the contractor has to buy there. The discount varies but I've never gotten less than contractor price.
To the question...
The last EPDM I bought locally was from ABC Supply in Mesa AZ. That was 2 years ago and it was $0.75/sq ft. I've recently found a building supply down the street that sells it for about the same, but I haven't bought any there yet.
Back in San Jose CA there were lots of pond supply stores I could go to for a reasonable price on EPDM. That was back maybe 15 years (I forget). I do remember it was a little more than online but it was so easy. Close by, dig the hole, pick up the liner. Worth it.
My go to place online always seems to be JustLiners.com, good size company, been around awhile, prices always seem reasonable. So I checked their current price...$0.49/sq ft for a 48'x48' PVC. If you bump that up to 35 mil it's $0.65. I assume their other sizes are similar. I also assume their are many other online companies with a similar price.
To me when you get above 20 mil PVC I'm like why not EPDM for a little more. PVC has it's uses, but when you start trying to get the same performance as EPDM you're not getting a good value. Which is also why if I was going with PVC I go with the 3 ply billboard stuff at $0.12/ sq ft. Yes it's 12-16 mil (I think), but it is 3 ply. I can't really say a 20 mil will last longer than a 15 mil. In theory yes, in the field it's a toss up. I mean we're already talking the low end, a pond that isn't suppose to last that long (10-15 yrs) anyways.
There certainly are a lot of places selling liner for whatever they can get. One place wanted $2.78/sq ft for EPDM. I asked them a few times "you sure you don't mean square yards?". I assume these places don't carry any and just drive to ABC to pickup whatever orders they happen to get. Low volume, high profit.
I don't really include shipping in my evaluation too much. If I could get the liner delivered from ABC for say $50-75 it would be worth it to save me the 2 hours and 60 mile round trip. I figure I'm paying for the service. On the other hand having just drive down the street wouldn't be worth a $50-75 delivery charge.
If I installed a lot of ponds I'd look into buying whole rolls direct from the manufacturer. Back when I looked into it (more than maybe 15 years now) it was a little less than 1/2 retail. Doesn't take too many ponds to use up a roll and the profit is good imo. You do need a forklift with a single pole fork like they use for moving carpet, to unload the truck and a rack so you can pull off what you need so there is some investment. I'd search "water containment membrane" for manufacturers.
WB, they are blaming the cost of rubber and shipping. The company we work with, we have had a contractors account with for more than 20 years, and they DO take very good care of us. Our discount varies by catagory. Our worst discount (due to lack of mark up) is in the pond supplies, and that is at 15% ... nursery stock (which is all of your yard plantings) we get the best discount, at 35% off (plus extra deals for doing business with them for so long). Early 2012 season, we were only paying $0.55 sq ft, and then when they got their official 2012 deliveries in, our cost jumped to $0.85 sq ft. I actually need to call them to get current prices as hubby has a pond client scheduled for an installation next month.
I am wise to the contractor discount games. While hubby is a legit business, even I hold my own Federal EIN as my own independent business. I'm simply a "General Contractor" which is vague, and I like it that way
I dont pay retail for much. I even changed banks a few weeks ago LOL.
Here's a link to another local company we do very little with (they are one of three pond suppliers local to us, if you want to call 45-50 minutes a drive down the road), but they are at $0.99 sq ft, and their staff is less than helpful. http://www.pondscapesgardencenter.com/category_s/29.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=29&show=250&page=1
Take the zip code off of the site I listed, and try punching it in for shipping a megar 20x20 liner and see what the rates look like getting things here. Freight isnt much better. We looked at getting rolls a few years back (before the economy slowed pond installations). It just isnt worth it in this economy. For 2013, I dont know if we will install 2 ponds (already scheduled) or 20 (highly unlikely). There isnt enough financial gain to "stock" liner material, so as always, costs get passed to the client.
I am wise to the contractor discount games. While hubby is a legit business, even I hold my own Federal EIN as my own independent business. I'm simply a "General Contractor" which is vague, and I like it that way
I dont pay retail for much. I even changed banks a few weeks ago LOL.Here's a link to another local company we do very little with (they are one of three pond suppliers local to us, if you want to call 45-50 minutes a drive down the road), but they are at $0.99 sq ft, and their staff is less than helpful. http://www.pondscapesgardencenter.com/category_s/29.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=29&show=250&page=1
Take the zip code off of the site I listed, and try punching it in for shipping a megar 20x20 liner and see what the rates look like getting things here. Freight isnt much better. We looked at getting rolls a few years back (before the economy slowed pond installations). It just isnt worth it in this economy. For 2013, I dont know if we will install 2 ponds (already scheduled) or 20 (highly unlikely). There isnt enough financial gain to "stock" liner material, so as always, costs get passed to the client.