Renovating the pond

[wuftytufty]

Hi, I already posted before, a few weeks ago, and more recently. We have been slowly working out what to do. I have some practical questions! If you don't want to read the detailed ramblings, please scroll down to my questions!!

So, our pond is an algae factory. It is lined by very big rocks, and I think it is trying to be a nature pond, but we have about 15 really small fish in it too. I think they are minnows,, we have a lot of juvenile newts (mud puppiesor salamanders) and tonnes of different larvae, dragon flies and so on. Some more info on recent post here, in terms of planning what we are doing: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/12728-deepening-little-pond/.

So we are going to dig it out. Weirdly, having a poke and a pull here and there, I found that the pond has been lined with a fleece, then the pond liner put down, and then lined that with fleece, before putting in the massive rocks.

Because the algae problem is soooooooo bad, and literally clogging everything out, despite constant attempts at removing the worst of it, we have decided to remove all the rocks, and create a nice little rockery, and then we will also double the current depth. I am going to put in a rock lined edge, which should help the little creatures to exit when they want. I will also put in a 18inch deep, approx 8in wide shelf around the edge, the rest will be 3feet deep. Currently it is shaped a bit like a rocky saucer.

The main problem for us is we don't have the time or the will to pull out at least a bucket full of algae every week on average, plus there is a massive amount of dust, which from reading around appears to be dead algae.

We will be cleaning up and renewing the filter and it's current media, given that it pumps the pond. I am also hoping to put in an additional bio filter with a little fountain. I am thinking about elevating it from the bottom of the pond, so that any sludgy bits will be dealt with by the main waterfall filter, and also I think it is lower powered, so perhaps the larvae etc can settle to the bottom and around the plants on the shelf.

It seems that soil has been used in the pond for planting marginals. We have a lot of gravel in the pond, and I would like to work out how to recycle that? Although I am concerned that by reintroducing that in, it will be making the algae problem worse.

We have 2 lily pad plants, and they are rooted right into the pond, and the liner, so I am going to try to retrieve what I can, and hope they can survive! I plan to pot them into removable planters, so that I can hoick them out to cut back the dead bits and remove the algae that gets really tangled and clogs it up. Although, I don't plan to remove ALL the algae. I did buy some pond soil to pot the lilies, but now a bit concerned about using this?

The aim is to make the pond much more easy to look after, whilst trying to not have to be interfering with it all the time hoicking out the algae, which stirs everything up, and is messing about with all the tiny creatures living in there.

I am planning on putting the fish in a gigantic plastic tub, with one of the lillies and a rock or two with the algae on it, and the other little critters, baby newts, larvae etc in a smaller tub with some sludge, and a couple of rocks, and another lilipad. This will most likely be for a week. Should I then Hubby is off work, for 2 weeks and totally on board with this project, and we will be doing this whatever the weather!

So, to the questions:

1: Should I purchase fish food for the fish, to use during their tub dwelling, or will they be ok with the lily pad and a bit of algae? Obviously there is going to be less algae in the pond. BEfore now, I have never fed them. Some critters will die, so there will be less food available until the pond restabilises in a couple of years, in the pond too, so wondered about providing some flakes after they go in too.

2: I am planning on filling the pond up with tap water, adding a chlorine remover and leaving it for 2 days, with pumps running, and no plants in it, to settle down. Is this ok? I was then going to do a couple of partial water changes with the new pond water for the fish, and then introduce them back in about 2 days after this. So fish and plants will be going in about 4 days after the pond has been filled with water.

3: I am going to pot up the lilies, so I can manage them better, and want to know what is the best way to do this. I have purchased a bag of pond specific soil, and play sand for this, but reading around, I can used pebbles or kitty litter (non clumping, pure clay variety) or just sand. How much does it matter what I do?

4: Is there any good guidance about planting "marginals" and also, how do I put in the pebbles and pea gravel for this, without getting the algae clumping again?

5: I presume it is ok, and good to reintroduce the sludge back into the water with the critters? I accept that we are inevitably going to lose some of the little critters, but eventually I am confident that it will build up better, in the coming years.

Looking forward to your comments,
Thanks,
Becky

 

[sissy]

gravel can be cleaned with peroxide and water and it will turn algae white and kill it the you clean gravel and can reuse.I would use your pond water to keep the fish in since it has plenty for them to eat aklready just set up a temporary filter with quilt batting in a crate or laundry basket .I do it in my stock tanks .I put a bucket in with holes drilled in it and put my pump inside with an extended outlet hose .I put lava rock in with the pump but you could use your gravel and pit the crate on top with the hose running up through it with quilt batting around it .To pot up plants use 100% clay kitty litter .
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:58369]Clean the plants and roots well with a good dip in operoxide and water and then repot them ,.
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[addy1]

1- they are small fish, you could feed them, but most likely they will do fine
2-you are using new water then doing water changes with the old pond water?, got lost on this one. Adding some of the old water will help the pond cycle, again small fish, most likely ok
3-I use kitty litter, the lilies do great in it. Sand would probably work too. I have not tried pea gravel for my lilies.
4-My marginals are mainly in the bog in pea gravel. Some are growing along the sides of the pond just stuck in the rocks.
5-How much sludge will you be putting back in? When I had sludge in my arizona pond the string algae grew like trees in it.

 

[wuftytufty]

Hi, thanks for the tips!

Addy, re #2: I was going to keep the fish in the water from the pond, so they don't find it too shocking. Then fill the pond with tapwater, because I have no choice, then leave it a couple of days, for the chemicals to waft off, and then in the morning, do a 25% water change, so I was planning on taking out 25% of the water the fish are in, and replacing it with the new water in the pond, and then that evening, doing another 25% water change, same thing, then the following morning put the fish in. Unless I am being too complicated!!

#4 - I read to do a bog bit, it has to be 3 feet deep! Is this really true?? I was thinking 30-40cm deep with mix of sand and gravel?

#5 - I was thinking of about 5 cups, not a lot, to be honest.

At least with the new set up I can remove the plant debris and algae, and at intervals, each few years, remove the dust. With it lined with rocks and being sooooo shallow, it makes it nigh on impossible. Although I did read somewhere that someone ties a bottle brush to a stick and uses that for algae removal - neat idea!

Right, today we do battle with the bushes....will post pics at the end of the day....

 

[Dave's pond Indiana]

When I plant a new water lily I put it in a hanging type of pot with the hook on top that way I can retrieve it from the pond. I put a small amount of pea gravel in the pot first then some black dirt and pond fertilizer, place the tuber to one side of the pot then some more dirt. Pack the dirt and cover with gravel. Then place hanging pot in shallow water until the plant starts growing. As the plant grows move it into deeper water.

 

[wuftytufty]

Wow, we are really tired, and I am too lazy to upload individual pics, but here is my flickr stream. Hope you can see it, it is set to public....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/101131840@N08/

Wine and Pizza next, with the tiny amount of strength we still have letft in our arms!!

 

[addy1]

Hi, thanks for the tips!

Addy, re #2: I was going to keep the fish in the water from the pond, so they don't find it too shocking. Then fill the pond with tapwater, because I have no choice, then leave it a couple of days, for the chemicals to waft off, and then in the morning, do a 25% water change, so I was planning on taking out 25% of the water the fish are in, and replacing it with the new water in the pond, and then that evening, doing another 25% water change, same thing, then the following morning put the fish in. Unless I am being too complicated!!

#4 - I read to do a bog bit, it has to be 3 feet deep! Is this really true?? I was thinking 30-40cm deep with mix of sand and gravel?

#5 - I was thinking of about 5 cups, not a lot, to be honest.

At least with the new set up I can remove the plant debris and algae, and at intervals, each few years, remove the dust. With it lined with rocks and being sooooo shallow, it makes it nigh on impossible. Although I did read somewhere that someone ties a bottle brush to a stick and uses that for algae removal - neat idea!

Right, today we do battle with the bushes....will post pics at the end of the day....

#2 with mixing the tap water with the old pond water you most likely will be fine.

#4 A bog can be just 12 to 18 inches deep, most bog plants are shallow rooted. Mine ended up being around 2.5 feet deep just because I dug out way to much, and used the dirt for the bog berm wall.

#5 a little pond muck will help you clean new pond start to get established.

 

[wuftytufty]

Thanks Addy, one question, must the bog have water running through it?

B

 

[wuftytufty]

Right, here we go, I have uploaded the progress pics to my showcase stream....
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/12418-from-green-sludge-to-beyond/?p=187607

It's hard work, and we may well kill eachother, if we don't kill ourselves first!!

 

[addy1]

Thanks Addy, one question, must the bog have water running through it?

B

There are different lines of though on this, some say you can just have the water flow over it, drain down through the gravel (if your bog is higher than the pond). I did that once, the problem I had was the pea gravel on the top of the bog got full of muck so water quit flowing through it. Or you can have a passive type bog, just have the water run over it and through the plants planted, it will help with filtering. Or a passive bog where you have a non water tight wall between the bog and the pond, the bog and the inflow. Water will flow through the walls, through the pea gravel and out into the pond. Or flow up through the gravel via piping and out into the pond, to me the most effective.

 

[wuftytufty]

Hmmm, with the limitations we have, I am suspecting that putting in a boggy filter thing just at the bottom of the waterfall, with a lip, so it will just overflow into the pond, I will make the lip about the same as the top of the water level. It will be easy to access to clean out.

Managed to retrieve the few marginals from around the pond, so I am hoping that I can get them planted in there, and they will look fine once they are settled in. It is a really gentle pace, with the water flowing quite gently. I will also have a bio filter in there too, so that means I can clean it out regularly, and hope with will catch a lot of the crap.

Wasn't surprised, when we finally uncovered the pump that it is just a pump with no filter. No wonder the pond was so clogged up. Found soil had been put in, some sand and rocks and pebbles. Seems a bit chaotic, but hoping that we can make it a nice and easy to maintain pond, with space for the newts and frogs etc. and nice for the fish too! Managed to hoick out the lilies ok, so hoping they will survive!!

Right, time to rest!

 

[wuftytufty]

By the way, cute doggies!!

 

[addy1]

Thanks, the little whitish one to the right is our new baby, she is 6.5 months old now. The one to the left passed early this year, broke our hearts. My honey said I was too sad without my pup so he got me a new one. She is a joy. (I helped find her, have to be careful with yorkies, they inbreed them too much)

Another thought, build your bog where the water coming from the water fall, falls to the bottom of your bog pit, put in a porous wall of rock or something, pile up the pea gavel on the other side, have the pea gravel go up higher than the outflow into the pond. You could use a piece of pvc piping stuck into the side of your bog pot to flow into the pond, this way the water will flow through the gravel to get back to the pond. It will take some experimenting to find the right height you need to gravel to be to make the water go through it and not over the top. It will also depend on how much flow you have going into the pot, you might need two or more pvc pipes coming out.

If for your flow, the pea gravel is too fine, use some small gravel like 1 inch size with plants stuck in the gravel. Less restriction to the water flowing through it.

Does that make sense? I can try to draw it up for you if that would help

I would love to have newts, just love them, so cute! Maybe they will find our pond some day. I had a poor dead snake in the shubunkin tank, it must have fallen in and could not get out. So I am going to make a critter ramp. This tank is a stock tank, straight walls, the water is just an inch below the lip but that is too much for some to manage to get out.

 

[wuftytufty]

Aw, addy, she is the cutest. As you can see our monsters are rather large!! But we love them so much too!

Re the bog, one thing I am not short of is rocks and stones...perhaps I could build a rock wall to the bog? Just stack the rocks up, and have them leaning a bit into the bog, where all the gravel will be? Does that make sense?

The gravel we have is at varying sizes, but mostly about an inch, so I am thinking this would be ideal! I hope!! What do you think?

We need to dig the thing out first!!

Such a shame about the snake, poor thing. I thought about doing a "newt-shute" The baby newts are tiny. It seems we have two types, the palmate and the common newts. They are gorgeous! Esp with their frilly little gills at the moment!

 

[addy1]

yep that makes sense and most likely would work well. If it does not work you can always redo.........which I have done more than once. That way the water would have to work to get through the gravel to get back to the pond. Put some plants in, add the root factor.

Yeah I hate things dieing in my pond, lost a turtle and now a snake, just a little one. So tomorrow I am designing a get out safe ramp that things could climb up on and get out. Now the critter would need to be smart enough to get to it, but the tank is not that big, only 9 foot across. I am thinking of a milk crate, plastic thing with holes, put that in then stack rocks on top, flat ones have one low in the water the slowly taller until they are even with the top of the tank or a little taller. Designing phase. I put up a anti turtle small fence so they would not fall in and drown, but snakes are harder to keep out. Even rabbits could fall in.