question regarding waterfall box and freezing pipes in the winter

[Margo]

As I work on the plans for my new pond (the ground is still to cold to dig here in Northern Illinois) I'm thinking ahead to winter. In my old set up, the waterfall box plumbing is at the bottom of the box and the 2" flexible pipe is below the ground. In my new setup, the intake is at the top of the waterfall box (Savio). My dad recommended we put a heated cord around the pipe that is similar to what we use here to keep gutters from freezing up. I don't think it's necessary since I don't pull the pump in the winter and moving water doesn't freeze right? I've never had issues with the skimmer box outlet pipe freezing and it's above the ground and above the freezing line for a couple of feet before it makes its way to the waterfall box.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? I would think anything that would keep the pvc pipe from freezing would also be too strong and could melt it.

Thanks
Margo

 

[sissy]

But if the pipe is exposed to air it can freeze .I was shocked this past winter when it happened to me .I thought as long as water was moving it could not freeze but what happened is the water coming out froze and the water could not flow right and it froze .I was lucky i caught it fast .I think is was all the snow on top of the filter that made it worse .Not sure ,i just know it froze

 

[Margo]

This is the product my Dad wants me to buy: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-30-ft-Automatic-Electric-Heat-Cable-Kit-HC30A/100196471 - Frost King 30 foot. $39.24 for that insurance. Plus of course the cost to run it.

Just read all the information on the Frost King and it's meant for inside use only - it's not weather proof. Back to looking.

 

[Margo]

I found this - but sounds super expensive to run! And like the other product, it doesn't appear to have use for in the ground. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-60-ft-Roof-De-Icing-Cable-Kit-RC60/100187093

So I guess I answered my question there. I wonder if there is a product out there that would work?

Margo

 

[sissy]

I use the foam pipe insulation over my pipe but did not put it on the pipe on the one filter and that is the one that froze..i think also if the filter pad had not frozen ,i would not have had the problem either .Both of my filters are down flow filters .The one goes into a crate and then into the stock tank but the whole thing froze up and i had to turn off pumps and move them back once they thawed out

 

[Sunshine]

My shut off on my drain pipe from the filter froze and broke this year. I have my pumps set up on crates, there was about 7 inches of water left in the pond that started to freeze solid. I'm trying to think of what could be used to prevent this from happening again. Really don't want to use electricity either.

 

[sissy]

I found the pics to show how it froze .

 

[Lisak1]

Sissy makes an important point - the water needs to be able to continue to flow freely out of the end of the pipe. Even the slightest bit of ice near the opening will soon become a large amount of ice, which will then block the opening and the ice will begin to back up into your pipe and your pipe will burst. As long as there is no danger of the water flow being stopped or impeded, you shouldn't have an issue with the water in the pipe freezing.

@Margo - we are a bit north of you and we have run our pond for the last three years all winter long. You know the kind of weather we have had. The pipe from the pump (submersible) to the bog runs about 30 feet underground. At the end it is above ground completely for about 8-10 inches before it goes down into the bog. It's buried no more than 12 inches underground - definitely not below the frost line - and we've had no issues with freezing water or broken pipes. All of our pipe is flex PVC. The electricity cost to run those pipe warming devices would be staggering with our electrical rates.

 

[sissy]

Yep totally forgot the crate .I have my pipes wrapped in that foam insulation where they come out of the water and it helps a lot and is cheap to buy .All my pipes are in the pond and waterfall .It had been so nice and warm I just never thought that night could get down to 5 degrees when daytime temp. was 45 .I learned not to trust the weather .On a lot of single wides here they run that heat wire on the trailers to keep pipes from freezing and it is not cheap .

 

[sissy]

you could run a pond heater right over your pump like I do .I just wish I had turned on the pond heater that night

 

[CometKeith]

Margo, I run a pump to my waterfall all year round. I have maybe 5 ft of exposed pipe before it empties over the waterfall. I didn't have any problems over the winter for the last few years. The ice and snow built kind of a shell around the area it flows into the pond but when the snow melted I could see it again. i don't use heaters of any kind, but do run an airstone also. I'm not sure the airstone helps a lot but it can't hurt.

 

[CountryEscape]

I've had trouble with water lines freezing in my koi pond waterfall, and even though I wrapped them last year with foam insulation tubing, I still felt better unplugging it. Not because I was worried about it freezing, but worried about the pond water chilling far faster than if the above ground water was not moving. I moved my skimmer pump to on top of a milk crate, on an angle, so it was shooting toward the water surface, bubbling about 4" on the surface. Moved waterfall pump (also on crate on bottom of pond) to my bog, and had that running all year, no problem with freezing. In my goldfish pond, I did the same with the skimmer pump, just so I didn't have to worry about having available unfrozen water to go into the skimmer (it only has about 2" of leeway), and the bog has run 24/7 for the last 3 years, no issues of freezing. I'm happy with my set up. This weekend (65 degrees predicted), I'm going to reconnect my waterfall filter and get that all going, and both skimmers, then both ponds should be back to normal again.

 

[Sunshine]

My bog set up I don't think was well designed. The first winter with it, I'm not sure how, but the water was going out the back as well as going out the waterfall. I haven't ran it in the winter since than. The bio I have always ran all year long. But this year, the PVC shut off froze and broke. The Koi always stayed on the deep side of the pond (furthest from the bio). A few goldfish stayed where the bio was running. Have to rethink what I'm going to do next winter.

 

[sissy]

MOVE TO VA The winters are milder .

 

[Sunshine]

With these winters getting worse every year, it's a thought ...