Pump died...so did my koi

[Johnnie]

I came home from a 5-day-trip and found my pump died...so did my koi. Wow...a pump has so much power over life or death of koi?
(Koi were 8 years old...from 5LBs to 10 LBS..& from 16 inches to 20 inches.)

 

[fishin4cars]

Wow, so sorry to hear about this. This is why I always run two pumps and filters and never tie them together on the same electrical circuit. A air pump and air stone may have also helped keep them alive until you found the dead pump. Just a little more info that may help others to prevent this from happening. Never place a pump directly on the bottom of a pond, Lift it 6-12" off the bottom so if a connection breaks it will not drain 100% of the water out of the pond.
How big was the pond? 5 days is a pretty long time if it was out the whole trip. If it was only out a day or so then it appears the pond was was over crowded as that few of fish should have lived in a pond for several days if the pond was large enough and had ample surface area. But so many other factors have to be considered. Again, so sorry for your loss. I know how heart breaking it can be first hand. Lost almost all ours two years ago to predators.

 

[CometKeith]

Thats horrible. I think everyone worries about their pond when they go away. Fishin, I agree with everything you said, but wonder how practical it is to have more than one electrical circuit for a pond. I think for most people that would be unrealistic. Even if you use different outlets the odds are they are tied into the same circuit breaker on your panel box if the outlets are close to each other. I have more than one pump but they are both plugged into the same surge protector. Obviously if the bioload is not pushed then the fish would probably do better without a pump running for a while.

 

[j.w]

Oh gosh that is terrible. You must be devastated and I feel so bad for you :sad:

 

[Big Lou]

I share your sadness. So very sorry for your loss.

 

[fishin4cars]

Thats horrible. I think everyone worries about their pond when they go away. Fishin, I agree with everything you said, but wonder how practical it is to have more than one electrical circuit for a pond. I think for most people that would be unrealistic. Even if you use different outlets the odds are they are tied into the same circuit breaker on your panel box if the outlets are close to each other. I have more than one pump but they are both plugged into the same surge protector. Obviously if the bioload is not pushed then the fish would probably do better without a pump running for a while.

Keith I ran two complete circuits from my breakers to two sets of boxes. If planning a new build it's really not that much more in cost. If two seperate circuits can't be run then two GFI's can be run that are not in parallel. that way if one shorts and throws then the other still stays running. Of course not all ponds can be done like this but if it is possible to do it can pay for itself if it saves the pond just one time.

 

[sissy]

Thats why I sat 2 pumps better than 1 .I also have them on different circuits .I have no luck so figure at least I can try harder

 

[whiskey]

a sad day for you and the fish....sorry to hear of your loss.

when planning my pond hence i went gravity feed not pump feed.......as if pump fails or electic fail water levels stay constant.......and give fish and you a chance to make amends, know this does not help you now but may help someone else reading this thread

whiskey

 

[addy1]

So sorry to hear that. It is sad to lose your fish for any reason.

I dial in to check our pond at least once a day when we are gone, so far doing that has saved us from one disaster.

Did the pump failure drain the pond? or just quit running?

I always have the aerator ready to plug in if our pump stops while we are gone, I tell the neighbor if the pump stops to just plug it in.

Just for some information for others, did you have any air running? I am wondering if an aerator was running if that might have saved the fish.

 

[Craig58]

Yes. Curious as to what actually killed the fish. Was it because the filter wasn't filtering or was it that the pond somehow drained out? Depending on location it coudl have also been higher temperatures of still water being heated up hotter and/or lower Q2 levels.

Terrible thing to come home to. I really feel your pain.

In my current pond I have only one pump, air pump and UV. The new pond will have two pumps and two air pumps plus a UV. In the new one I've run three circuits, ( i.e. 3 different breakers), from the panel to the pump shed. I have one pump and one air pump on one circuit and the other pump and air pump on the second circuit. Similar to Larkin. One of those will also carry the UV. The third circuit is an extra one that I use for lighting in the shed, future low-voltage pond lighting and extra receptacles for the occasional need for a power tool, extension cord, etc..

I'm spoiled as my son is an electrican. But if you are paying for one, it's very little money to run the extra lines. Most of the extra cost is the hardware. There isn't a whole lot of extra labor as most of the labor costs are related to pulling the wire. Pulling 2 or 3 lines isn't much different than pulling one. If you can't afford the whole cost right away, have them at least run the wire. You can leave the unused lines unconnected at both ends and have them tied in at a later date. About the only extra cost in that case is the extra wire used. Even if you don't think you'll ever need the second or third wire, run it anyway. That way you can add outdoor spot lights someday, outside receptacles for xmas lights, or deck/patio lighting.

Also, some people put their GFI's on the whole circuit or the first outlet of the circuit. My son recommended that I use individual GFI's on each outlet with the outlets in parallel instead of series. We are planning two double outlets on each of the two pump circuits. The air pump on one outlet and the pump on the second. That way a GFI trip won't trip everything on the circut. If the pump trips, the air pump keeps going and vice-versa. If the whole circuit was GFI'ed, a pump trip would shut down the air pump too. This is avoided with two GFI plugs instead of the GFI on the whole circuit. The only extra cost is few extra GFI outlets.

Hope to hear back some more details from you on the exact issue. It might help me in my current build or others in future designs.

Craig

 

[Big Lou]

Best of luck with your new configuration.

 

[icerabbit]

So sorry for your loss.

I wonder how crowded your pond was and what the water balance situation was. A pump failure for a few days should not cause a fish kill. My smaller summer time ponds have always needed pumps & filtration, but I know of two bigger ponds high on plants and low on fish, that have not seen a pump or anything in years.

I second the idea of running two smaller pumps, if they're small enough (don't know the size/volume of your pond and power draw from your pump) could be one circuit, like a 20A 12 gauge line but with a separate 15A GFCI per pump. If they are more powerful pumps, a dedicated 15A circuit for each may be required. I know personally that that is typically easier said than done.

Despite running fine for months, one weekend, I had a near miss with my second pond, when the return hose somehow was moved slightly - cat ? critter ? - while we were away for the weekend, and the return water flowed more into the flower beds rather than the pond. There were literally a couple inches of water left in the pond and since the pump was drawing air, it wasn't pumping out the very bottom of the pond ... but fish were sideways on the floor Pulled the plug. Added water. Disaster averted.

Lesson learned:

* secure return line path so it can't be accidentally moved

* raise pump of the floor level onto a block, stones, plant shelf, ... so that if there is problem with the return water, that there is at least enough water for fish to survive

* installed a 110v float switch onto edge of pond, if the water level drops a few inches, power is cut off to the pump. This is of course not ideal, as you will lose circulation and filtration, but fish should be able to handle that for a few days if there is an appropriate amount of space & water for them.

* added small air line to at least add some oxygen and surface circulation in case the pump is stopped

I was told by someone (with a lot more pond & aquarium experience than me) that my heavy duty pump (on the float switch) that goes to the filtration system, should never be shut down other than for maintenance, as it will create a toxic environment in the filter if it is shut down and then restarted days later. But, it worked and gave me piece of mind. I may or may not use a 110v float switch in my next pond project to cut power to the pump, but rather a float switch that allows additional water to come from a storage tank to keep the level constant and combat evaporation.

Again sorry for your loss. Hope you can share more of what your setup was and can start a new fish family soon.

 

[blessedfamily]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[icerabbit]

... it's very little money to run the extra lines. Most of the extra cost is the hardware. There isn't a whole lot of extra labor as most of the labor costs are related to pulling the wire. Pulling 2 or 3 lines isn't much different than pulling one. If you can't afford the whole cost right away, have them at least run the wire. You can leave the unused lines unconnected at both ends and have them tied in at a later date. About the only extra cost in that case is the extra wire used. Even if you don't think you'll ever need the second or third wire, run it anyway. That way you can add outdoor spot lights someday, outside receptacles for xmas lights, or deck/patio lighting.

Also, some people put their GFI's on the whole circuit or the first outlet of the circuit. My son recommended that I use individual GFI's on each outlet with the outlets in parallel instead of series. We are planning two double outlets on each of the two pump circuits. The air pump on one outlet and the pump on the second. That way a GFI trip won't trip everything on the circut. If the pump trips, the air pump keeps going and vice-versa. If the whole circuit was GFI'ed, a pump trip would shut down the air pump too. This is avoided with two GFI plugs instead of the GFI on the whole circuit. The only extra cost is few extra GFI outlets.

Hope to hear back some more details from you on the exact issue. It might help me in my current build or others in future designs.

Craig

Completely agree with the electrical recommendations. If there are empty breakers slots and your house has basement with exposed panel near pond location ... it it can be all done in as a little as an hour. But, many properties I've seen have full panels, and will require a small sub-panel and two circuits to be moved over, to get the option of 6-10 more circuits or so. Not cost prohibitive, easy to do and not too much work, but better left to an electrician. Pulling two or three wires is pretty much the same as one. If the pond location is away from the house, there is of course that line burying requirement ... but the homeowner can dig the little trench on his/her own time or maybe if you have a deck between the house & pond, you can just run along there in conduit or staple outdoor wire up. All depends on your house and garden layout.

My next pond will have two circuits with three outlets. Two new 12A lines of approx 60 ft. One circuit for a heavy duty pump for a water feature (on demand) and one circuit shared between a medium duty pump (continuous circulation & filtration) and pond lighting (on demand). Pathway lighting will be nominal via use of LEDs. They don't have to be 12 gauge and could just be 14 gauge, because the runs aren't that long, but I prefer it one size up. The cost of the breaker is the same, the beefier wire isn't that more expensive and you never know that you want to plug something more into the same line down the road. Where, you're wanting additional lighting, some extra feature for a party, ...

 

[Craig58]

I was told by someone (with a lot more pond & aquarium experience than me) that my heavy duty pump (on the float switch) that goes to the filtration system, should never be shut down other than for maintenance, as it will create a toxic environment in the filter if it is shut down and then restarted days later.

Kind of true. Bacteria in filter will die out after about 48 hrs. Best to send the initial outflow to the garden and not the pond. Since the bacteria dies, it can take a few weeks to get the right balance of bacteria to keep the water chemisty right. Waterbug has talked in other posts about new pond syndrome. Basically the same thing here so the fish die of the wastes in the water not neccesarily the filter contents that died off.

Craig