Proper KH and GH levels

[joesandy1822]

I tested my KH and GH today for the first time. I'm not sure exactly how to read the test results. It is an API test kit. I'm sure I'm just making it harder than I need to, but the chart doesn't make sense to me.

It only took 4 drops of the KH reagent, and it took 6 drops of the GH. The pond is 3,000 gallons.

Please advise what other numbers are needed to know whether the KH or GH needs adjusting. I'm assuming you will need pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings for the pond as well as the tap water? Also KH and GH of the tap water. Do you also need temperature of water or anything else I may be missing?

Thanks!

 

[crsublette]

Read Remedial Water Chemistry and Treatment. The answer is in there or a referenced hyperlinks within. May the force be with you. :huh: ^_^

For the cliff notes version (kind of )... Forget the chart...

Welp, if it is the liquid API KH test kit, then the exact moment it changes color after a drop of reagent is when the test is finished. The color change might be faded or quite small, but it is definitely noticeable. Now, you have the correct total number of drops and test is complete. 1 drop = to 1 dKH. Multiply the number of drops by the coefficient of 17.848 to get the ppm value. So, 6 multiplied by 17.848 is 107ppm KH.

The "norm" will be determined by your source water and how often you add fresh water or how often it rains. Some folk have a really tough time keeping the KH above 1 drop (that is 18ppm). Some folk have a really tough time keeping the KH at 6 drops (that is 107ppm). Some folk have a very easy time keeping the KH at 11 drops (that is 200ppm). So, the "norm" will be determined by your source water and how often you add fresh water and how often your pond receives rain water.

Also, the type of bio-filter will determine the recommended KH level. If it is a bead filter, then above 150ppm KH (8 drops). If it is not a bead filter, then it can be anything as long as the pH is constant and stable. However, for beginners and if it is possible, I would keep the KH at 200 (11 drops) or above; at this level, your pH will never drop, but it can still go up if you lack calcium.

If you want to raise your KH volume, then I would only raise it by 2 drops (or 35ppm) every 24 hours so to not stress the fish.

If there is a presence of ammonia, then first neutralize or reduce this ammonia with an ammonia detoxifier product, found at pond stores, or zeolite (such as PDZ found at farm supply stores) or stop feeding or do some very slow, big, water changes to dilute the ammonia. Read pond testing to understand why it is important to reduce the ammonia prior to increaseing the pH level. KH will increase your pH, as the volume of KH increases, until it reaches 8.3~8.5, which is at around 10 drops (or 180ppm). 300ppm (16 drops) will still have a pH of ~8.5 as long as calcium is at an appropriate level.

GH is only a measure of many minerals. Calcium is the only mineral that is important for stabilizing the pH, preventing it from raising. Magnesium and other minerals are there for the health of your fish and plants. Your GH test can be quite high due to high magnesium, iron, and many other mineral, but then be low in calcium. Ultimately, to determine if your calcium level is ok, you monitor your pH. If your pH raises up near 9.0 or higher, then your water has a calcium deficiency.

Quick side note... KH is the carbon energy, or "fuel" source, for your bio-filter and for many aquatic plants. As the bacteria and aquatic plants perform their duties, then some of the KH is consumed. Also, due to rain's low pH, any introduction of rain will consume KH. As your pond matures or has a high organic presences, then Mother Nature creates other processes to further consume some KH. My point is KH does naturally become depleted.

If your source water is sufficienty hard (that is with calcium) and alkaline (that is with a high KH), then all you might need to do is a small water change to restore the pH stability and calcium levels.

To know the products and instructions on how to properly measure for them, then read the particular section in the hyperlink above in regards to Reducing high pH and Increasing low pH. Also, calcium carbonate products such as crushed oyster shells, crushed coral, lithaqua, etc can help stabilize the pH and make your pond healthy. For more explanation about these calcium carbonate products, then read: Ph Fluxuation? How to control? and Low GH and KH! What to do?.


So... all this leads me to ask five important questions in regards to the context of KH and GH (calcium) levels.


1) Can you obtain and share a water report from your local water municipality building?? This is public information.


2) From using the API KH liquid test kit you have... What is the KH of the tap water ??


3) How often do you do and how big are water changes done for your pond ?? Do you have to "top off" the pond due to evaporation ?? If so, how often do you add water due to evaporation?? Do you implement a slow trickle water change system (such as called a "flow through" system) ?? How often do you flush out your filters and how much water do you think you add due to flushing out your filters ??


4) Does your ammonia test kit register any ammonia ?? If so, how much ammonia and what is your water temperature in the mornings and late afternoon ??


5) Does your pH reach near 8.8~9.0 or higher in the mornings or throughout the day ??


In the context of KH and GH, nitrite and nitrate readings and other tests are not important... Unless I missed something... My memory comes and goes it seems nowadays.

Please ask more questions if something needs clarification or for anything.

 

[joesandy1822]

Charles,

Again, thanks for the info and help. I will answer your questions tomorrow after I do a more thorough water testing. However, I have to say that although I have read and reread the Remedial Water Chemistry thread several times, as well as the links within, I am not too proud to say that a LOT of this information is just WAY over my head. You seem like you have a PhD in chemistry or something (meant as a compliment). I'd like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent person, but a lot of this stuff is way out there to me. I'll do my best to learn what is necessary to know, but probably not much more. I have had to learn, due to some pretty hard life circumstances the past several years, to let some things go.

I think it's awesome that people like you can "get it".......and I see that you REALLY get it! Hopefully, I can have a successful pond without having to understand everything quite so well.

Will post test results, etc., tomorrow. Thanks again!

Sandy

 

[crsublette]

Yep, answering those questions will help. I was hoping that my prior explanation to the questions would express my reasoning as to why I am asking the questions and how I am going to react to the answers.


Also, thanks and you're welcome. Since I have only been in this hobby for just under 2 years, I really do not know much, but I like to think I know enough and know what works. I'm always learning as well. I am definitely not the only guy that knows much here, but I do enjoy sharing what I have learned and I am definitely still prone to mistakes in what I write and in what I think I know. I never will have enough experience and definitely not a "pond authority" although folk will try to suggest otherwise due to my lack of tact or how I approach forums.

Much like looking at a mirror to see a reflection of their physical appearance, I view forums and writing as a reflection of how clearly folk have a grasp on what they think. So, I put my self to the test everytime I am writting as well. If I can't properly express myself, then I go back to do more homework, reading, and reflecting on what others have written.

You really do not need to know three quarters of the details I have shared. I just share the additional details for folk that find the details interesting and possibly helpful. I know folk who have done quite well with never knowing much and just following the advice from others. In truth, folk do not need to know much at all, that is just need to know enough to operate. I think this is fine until problems rear its ugly head, but there will always be folk willing to help out.

Some folk were designed to enjoy eating fish while other folk passionately enjoy catching the fish to put on your plate to help you enjoy it. Maybe not the best figure of speech in this luxurious pond hobby, but I think it expresses how things really are in life when folk simply want to relax and enjoy something. I actually find all these details quite relaxing so this allows me to help others better relax without having to know the details, help to ease tension about the details, and simply help increase other folk's enjoyment.

My hope is that folk will grasp onto what they can understand, learn a few things along the journey, continue to ask questions, and simply just enjoy it as much as ya can. :claphands: :banana: :afro: :beerchug:

 

[joesandy1822]

1) Can you obtain and share a water report from your local water municipality building?? This is public information.
The best they could give me is this on page 15, although their nitrate findings and mine are different.
http://www.shelbytwp.org/departments/dpw/docs/2012_Pipeline.pdf

2) From using the API KH liquid test kit you have... What is the KH of the tap water ??
Took 5 drops.


3) How often do you do and how big are water changes done for your pond ?? Do you have to "top off" the pond due to evaporation ?? If so, how often do you add water due to evaporation?? Do you implement a slow trickle water change system (such as called a "flow through" system) ?? How often do you flush out your filters and how much water do you think you add due to flushing out your filters ??
Well...I have never done a water change on the pond yet. It has only been filled since June 8th. I have only added water once, and it was 80 gallons (the whole pond is 3,000 gallons). No trickle water change system. I have not flushed my biofilter, and I do not intend to per some research I've done (unless I have unusual problems). Is this a mistake? My filter is a 26" filter falls with a Matala mat, green scrubbies, poultry netting, tulle netting, and some other small, plastic items.

4) Does your ammonia test kit register any ammonia ?? If so, how much ammonia and what is your water temperature in the mornings and late afternoon ??
I have never registered any ammonia. I'm sorry, I did not remember to test temperature. I will do that tomorrow.

5) Does your pH reach near 8.8~9.0 or higher in the mornings or throughout the day ??
I have not tested pH multiple times in one day. I can also do that tomorrow.

Here are my test results from tonight.

TAP water:
pH 7.6
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5 ppm
GH 6 drops
KH 5 drops

POND water:
pH 8.4
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0
GH 5 drops
KH 4 drops

 

[crsublette]

Can you obtain and share a water report from your local water municipality building?? This is public information.

1) The best they could give me is this on page 15, although their nitrate findings and mine are different.
http://www.shelbytwp.org/departments/dpw/docs/2012_Pipeline.pdf


From using the API KH liquid test kit you have... What is the KH of the tap water ??

2) Took 5 drops.


How often do you do and how big are water changes done for your pond ?? Do you have to "top off" the pond due to evaporation ?? If so, how often do you add water due to evaporation?? Do you implement a slow trickle water change system (such as called a "flow through" system) ?? How often do you flush out your filters and how much water do you think you add due to flushing out your filters ??

3) Well...I have never done a water change on the pond yet. It has only been filled since June 8th. I have only added water once, and it was 80 gallons (the whole pond is 3,000 gallons). No trickle water change system. I have not flushed my biofilter, and I do not intend to per some research I've done (unless I have unusual problems). Is this a mistake? My filter is a 26" filter falls with a Matala mat, green scrubbies, poultry netting, tulle netting, and some other small, plastic items.

Does your ammonia test kit register any ammonia ?? If so, how much ammonia and what is your water temperature in the mornings and late afternoon ??

4) I have never registered any ammonia. I'm sorry, I did not remember to test temperature. I will do that tomorrow.

Does your pH reach near 8.8~9.0 or higher in the mornings or throughout the day ??

5) I have not tested pH multiple times in one day. I can also do that tomorrow.

Here are my test results from tonight.

TAP water:
pH 7.6
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5 ppm
GH 6 drops
KH 5 drops

POND water:
pH 8.4
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0
GH 5 drops
KH 4 drops

1) The best they could give me is this on page 15, although their nitrate findings and mine are different.
http://www.shelbytwp.org/departments/dpw/docs/2012_Pipeline.pdf

A bit dissapointed on the test info they share. I have seen results from other municipalities that include the entire range of minerals including calcium, range of alkalinity present, and pH. I was hoping this was the info that would be in it. It would have been very nice to know, but it is no problem not knowing since ya got your test kits.

Welp, at least they share if there is Nitrate in the water, which .30 ppm is nothing to be concerned about.

From the little info they do share, it looks good.

It does indicate a presence of chlorine. So, I figure you are using a dechlorinator.


2) Took 5 drops.

Good. So that means 5 x 17.848 = 90ppm KH.


3) Well...I have never done a water change on the pond yet. It has only been filled since June 8th. I have only added water once, and it was 80 gallons (the whole pond is 3,000 gallons). No trickle water change system. I have not flushed my biofilter, and I do not intend to per some research I've done (unless I have unusual problems). Is this a mistake? My filter is a 26" filter falls with a Matala mat, green scrubbies, poultry netting, tulle netting, and some other small, plastic items.

Since it has only been filled for about a month, then I would definitely not disturb the biofilter much at all. Sounds like your pond is quite new and still trying to get mature.

What's the name of the filter falls product?? No judgement, just saying it would give me a better idea on what should be cleaned and what should not be cleaned.

After you think your pond has matured for a few months, if you have the capability of flushing the biofilter, then I would only do it once a week or every few weeks or so that is if you notice all sorts of muck, mulm, or debris building up on the bottom. You can flush your bio-filter as long as it is a gentle, stirring type flush with pond water. Do not use city tap water to flush it. You want to make sure there is very little debris buildup in the biofilter. Do not be aggressive with the flushes, that is do not use a spray nozzle or anything like this. If wanting to stir it to remove any settled mulm, muck, or debris, then use something to gently move the biofilter medium around. You can gently take the biofilter medium out and in a container of pond water, but do not leave it like this for too long. Biofilter medium is often transported between ponds and quarantine tanks. So, simply moving the biofilter medium does not damage the bacteria beyond repair.


Ok. I assume the once-added 80 gallons was due to evaporation or pad filter cleanings, that is only about 2.7% of your 3,000g pond volume. So, no problem. Small 5%~10% weekly water changes are good to replenish the minerals in the pond water. This small change will not interfere too much in maintaining a high KH level.


How much rain have you received or might receive ?? Floods can really cause your pH to change quite a bit, especially since the KH is low. This can be easily fixed by raising your KH with grocery store baking soda (no additives), which is perfectly fish/pond safe. I know folk who increase their KH all the way to 300ppm (17 drops) when they know a big heavy rain storm is coming. This high KH will not hurt goldfish.


4) I have never registered any ammonia. I'm sorry, I did not remember to test temperature. I will do that tomorrow.

Good. Aiming for extremely low or zero ammonia before increasing the KH value. Since you did not register any ammonia, then don't worry about the water temperatures. I was wondering about it since it would have an impact on the ammonia's fish toxicity, if the ammonia was present.

Water temperature is still good to know to be aware of how it is changing in your pond. Shallow ponds will have wider temperature changes, which could be a problem. Fish do not like very wide temperature changes. If the change is quite wide, then more plants to help shade the water may help.


5) I have not tested pH multiple times in one day. I can also do that tomorrow.

Very important to know if your pH is swinging. So, at least one day out of the week, test your pH at multiple times a day.

Due to your low KH, crushed oyster shell will help you some depending on how much you are willing to use. You can go to any pond/aquarium store or to a farm supply store to get some crushed oyster shells or crushed coral (that is 100% pure calcium carbonate). Often sold in farm stores due to it helping egg-laying hens. Then, find some type of mesh bag that can hold the material and place it in the pond where the water will flow over it.

If you are able to put enough calcium carbonate in the water, then you might not have to worry about pH swings. However, if it rains or floods alot, then the rain will eat your KH faster; so, increase the amount of oyster shell, within reason of what you want to do.


6) Here are my test results from tonight.

TAP water:
pH 7.6
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5 ppm
GH 6 drops
KH 5 drops

POND water:
pH 8.4
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0
GH 5 drops
KH 4 drops

Be sure to aerate the tap water before you test it. Thread, pH level, post#13 and #14 shares examples of what you can use to aerate the tap water. Use one of these tools to fill a glass or bucket with the aerated tap water, then use this water to fill your test vial.

Carbon dioxide builds up in tap water and, with a low KH such as you have, then the carbon dioxide creates a carbonic acid to artificially lower the tap water's pH. Aerating forces this carbonic acid to release carbon dioxide out of the water and this causes the pH to rise.

This is why your tap water's pH is 7.6 and your pond water pH is 8.4 since the water gets aerated when entering the pond and further aerated by the pond's fountains, waterfalls, etc.

Your water's pH likely increased to 8.4 after aeration due to all of the trace residuals from the water treatment plant.

As your pond ages and due to your 90ppm KH, then pH will likely drop down to around 7.5~7.7 as your pond matures. Might be a little bit above this depending on how much fresh water you put into the pond.

 

[crsublette]

Others may have a different opinion, but, due to how little new fresh water you add and your tap water KH is not terribly low, then I think it will be reasonably easy for you to raise your KH level.

If you want to do this, then simply use the typical food grade, grocery store, baking soda and then use the Alkalinity (KH) calculator. Always dissolve the baking soda in a bucket and then gently pour it around the parameter of the pond or in an area where there is moving water.

Only increase the KH by 2 drops (36ppm) every 24 hours.

From using the calculator, enter your pond volume under gallons, which yours is 3,000. Zero out the text field in the "ppm KH change". Enter a 2 in the text box for "DH change", that is 2 drops. Then, the calculator will instantly adjust the values under "amount of baking soda". If the values do not change, then sometimes you have to hit the "tab" key.

So, for a 3,000 gallon pond, to change the KH by 2 dKH (that is 2 drops), then you will need to use 20 ounces of baking soda. Dissolve this in a bucket, pour it around the pond parameter or waterfall, and then wait a few hours or 12~24 hours to use your KH test kit.

Repeat this routine for a couple or few days until you obtain a KH test kit reading of 8 drops (that is 8 dKH, or 143ppm KH). This is good enough, but, personally, I would at least raise it to 11 drops (that is 11 dkh, or 200ppm KH).

If you think you might get a heavy rain or a flood, then raise it even a bit higher than 200ppm. This will give you a pH of 8.3~8.5.


This will stabilize the low end of the pH scale for you, meaning it will prevent your pH from swinging too low.


To prevent your pH swinging too high, then this might be fixed by a simple water change since this might give you just enough calcium to bring down the high pH. If the pH starts reaching to 9.0 or higher even with the small water changes, then you will need to increase your calcium concentration with a calcium chloride product (no additives), which is completely fish/pond safe. The dosage rate is 1 pound per 1,000 gallons. Dissolve this in a bucket and then pour it around the pond. Do not add this product at the same time with baking soda so wait at least 24 hours after a baking soda dosage. Otherwise, a pure calcium carbonate product will form, which will be much less soluble at a pH of 8.3~8.5 causing the calcium not to be added to the water. This calcium will raise your GH test values.


For GH, 5 drops multiplied by 17.848 is 90 ppm GH.

Depending on who you ask, you will get different answers as to if this level is good. It is purely a judgement call. The calcium chloride will somewhat raise this value. If you want raise it more, then you can dose the water with Epsom Salt (8 ounces or 1 pound per 1,000 gallons), which is magnesium sulfate and is very healthy for the fish, pond life, and your bio-filter, but I would only add this product sparingly since the pond can have too much magnesium that could interfere with your plants. Also, you can dose the water with Koi Clay Calcium Bentonite, very fish and pond safe, to further increase the GH value.


I hope this helps. :cheerful:

 

[crsublette]

Whether this should be done or not is up to the owner. It's a judgement call.

If interested, then these explanations are how you do it.


You mainly just want a stable and constant pH to be healthy for your fish and biofilter.

A calcium carbonate product such as crush oyster shells or crushed coral or one of them many other calcium carbonate products might be all you need.


However, even after the calcium carbonate products, if your pH is still fluctuating, then the KH and possibly GH (calcium) will be needed, as explained above, to make the pH constant and stable.


I hope I am not confusing ya. It all depends on what you want to do and what your situation calls for. Personally, I would raise the KH, but it is not always entirely necessary as explained above as long as the pH is constant and stable.


Again, I hope this helps. :cheerful:

 

[cr8tivguy]

Tractor Supply has a 50lb bag of crushed Oyster Shells for $10. I used an old black pillow case for my Oyster Shells. My KH has increased quite a bit in the 7 days it's been in the water. I placed the bag the front of my bog (open water just before the weir/fall). The black pillow case hides the Oyster Shells and it blends in nicely.

 

[joesandy1822]

Tractor Supply has a 50lb bag of crushed Oyster Shells for $10. I used an old black pillow case for my Oyster Shells. My KH has increased quite a bit in the 7 days it's been in the water. I placed the bag the front of my bog (open water just before the weir/fall). The black pillow case hides the Oyster Shells and it blends in nicely.

Thanks for the tip. I'll head over and get some!

 

[Lindasue]

Read Remedial Water Chemistry and Treatment. The answer is in there or a referenced hyperlinks within. May the force be with you. :huh: ^_^

For the cliff notes version (kind of )... Forget the chart...

Welp, if it is the liquid API KH test kit, then the exact moment it changes color after a drop of reagent is when the test is finished. The color change might be faded or quite small, but it is definitely noticeable. Now, you have the correct total number of drops and test is complete. 1 drop = to 1 dKH. Multiply the number of drops by the coefficient of 17.848 to get the ppm value. So, 6 multiplied by 17.848 is 107ppm KH.

The "norm" will be determined by your source water and how often you add fresh water or how often it rains. Some folk have a really tough time keeping the KH above 1 drop (that is 18ppm). Some folk have a really tough time keeping the KH at 6 drops (that is 107ppm). Some folk have a very easy time keeping the KH at 11 drops (that is 200ppm). So, the "norm" will be determined by your source water and how often you add fresh water and how often your pond receives rain water.

Also, the type of bio-filter will determine the recommended KH level. If it is a bead filter, then above 150ppm KH (8 drops). If it is not a bead filter, then it can be anything as long as the pH is constant and stable. However, for beginners and if it is possible, I would keep the KH at 200 (11 drops) or above; at this level, your pH will never drop, but it can still go up if you lack calcium.

If you want to raise your KH volume, then I would only raise it by 2 drops (or 35ppm) every 24 hours so to not stress the fish.

If there is a presence of ammonia, then first neutralize or reduce this ammonia with an ammonia detoxifier product, found at pond stores, or zeolite (such as PDZ found at farm supply stores) or stop feeding or do some very slow, big, water changes to dilute the ammonia. Read pond testing to understand why it is important to reduce the ammonia prior to increaseing the pH level. KH will increase your pH, as the volume of KH increases, until it reaches 8.3~8.5, which is at around 10 drops (or 180ppm). 300ppm (16 drops) will still have a pH of ~8.5 as long as calcium is at an appropriate level.

GH is only a measure of many minerals. Calcium is the only mineral that is important for stabilizing the pH, preventing it from raising. Magnesium and other minerals are there for the health of your fish and plants. Your GH test can be quite high due to high magnesium, iron, and many other mineral, but then be low in calcium. Ultimately, to determine if your calcium level is ok, you monitor your pH. If your pH raises up near 9.0 or higher, then your water has a calcium deficiency.

Quick side note... KH is the carbon energy, or "fuel" source, for your bio-filter and for many aquatic plants. As the bacteria and aquatic plants perform their duties, then some of the KH is consumed. Also, due to rain's low pH, any introduction of rain will consume KH. As your pond matures or has a high organic presences, then Mother Nature creates other processes to further consume some KH. My point is KH does naturally become depleted.

If your source water is sufficienty hard (that is with calcium) and alkaline (that is with a high KH), then all you might need to do is a small water change to restore the pH stability and calcium levels.

To know the products and instructions on how to properly measure for them, then read the particular section in the hyperlink above in regards to Reducing high pH and Increasing low pH. Also, calcium carbonate products such as crushed oyster shells, crushed coral, lithaqua, etc can help stabilize the pH and make your pond healthy. For more explanation about these calcium carbonate products, then read: Ph Fluxuation? How to control? and Low GH and KH! What to do?.


So... all this leads me to ask five important questions in regards to the context of KH and GH (calcium) levels.


1) Can you obtain and share a water report from your local water municipality building?? This is public information.


2) From using the API KH liquid test kit you have... What is the KH of the tap water ??


3) How often do you do and how big are water changes done for your pond ?? Do you have to "top off" the pond due to evaporation ?? If so, how often do you add water due to evaporation?? Do you implement a slow trickle water change system (such as called a "flow through" system) ?? How often do you flush out your filters and how much water do you think you add due to flushing out your filters ??


4) Does your ammonia test kit register any ammonia ?? If so, how much ammonia and what is your water temperature in the mornings and late afternoon ??


5) Does your pH reach near 8.8~9.0 or higher in the mornings or throughout the day ??


In the context of KH and GH, nitrite and nitrate readings and other tests are not important... Unless I missed something... My memory comes and goes it seems nowadays.

Please ask more questions if something needs clarification or for anything.

 

[Lindasue]

I posted earlier about lowering ph with gypsum and the response was "What is KH and GH?" So I got the API Pond Master Test Kit plus Kh & Gh tests. The wide range ph is 9.00 the KH is 19 (tested twice on different days) and the GH is somewhere over 26. I got some ph down by BOTANICARE but am not sure what to do with it.

 

[crsublette]

I posted earlier about lowering ph with gypsum and the response was "What is KH and GH?" So I got the API Pond Master Test Kit plus Kh & Gh tests. The wide range ph is 9.00 the KH is 19 (tested twice on different days) and the GH is somewhere over 26. I got some ph down by BOTANICARE but am not sure what to do with it.

Woh!! Full stop! Hold on there... Stop! Do not pass go!

Your water with a 19 KH will require a tremendous amount of acid to lower this.

No way is gypsum ever strong enough to lower your pH with a KH as high as 19.

The 29% phosphoric acid concentrate of Botanicare would make a dent, but you will need quite a bit of it to burn through 19 degrees of KH before your pH starts to lower.


The best way for me to describe what is happening here is to use my mattress example. The mattress is the water. The springs within the mattress is the KH. The act of "jumping" on the mattress is the acid. Water with a high KH is like a mattress with very strong springs. With strong springs, then the more you bounce on the mattress. The more you jump on the mattress, then the more the mattress springs lose strength, allowing less bouncing. This describes your situation perfectly

@Lindasue As you add your acid, you will notice the pH go down for a few hours, but, after a few more hours, you will then notice the pH bounce back up to where it was in the beginning. This is due to your quite high KH.

As you add acid, then there is less KH, but takes a tremendous amount of acid to lower KH.


Do not use phosphoric acid. The salt of this acid is phosphates and you do not want to add more phosphates to your pond water. This will create a massive algae explosion for you.

Muratic acid, also called pool acid or hydrochloric acid, is more suitable, but this is incredibly caustic and dangerous!! Be sure to wear a gas mask and a chemical suit. I know there are fella's that do not bother with these safety precautions, but all it takes is for one misplace drop or inhalation of fumes and you have a serious chemical burn or pass out.

Do not use these acids unless you are fully comfortable to do so. Personally, I would recommend you to avoid these acids


@Lindasue Also, look into using liquid test kits. Test strips are nice for a quick test, but they are not very accurate at all. Test strips act like a fire alarm in that the strips sends an alert to tell you if something is wrong. Once you know something is wrong, then you need to pull out your liquid test kit to get better details.

Your pH should actually not be as high as 9.0 if your GH was at 26, but, since I am guessing this is not city water due to the high KH level, then most likely there is something else in the water influencing the 9.0 pH.... but... Do a liquid test kit test first on your pH and KH before deciding to do anything else.

 

[Lindasue]

Woh!! Full stop! Hold on there... Stop! Do not pass go!

Your water with a 19 KH will require a tremendous amount of acid to lower this.

No way is gypsum ever strong enough to lower your pH with a KH as high as 19.

The 29% phosphoric acid concentrate of Botanicare would make a dent, but you will need quite a bit of it to burn through 19 degrees of KH before your pH starts to lower.


The best way for me to describe what is happening here is to use my mattress example. The mattress is the water. The springs within the mattress is the KH. The act of "jumping" on the mattress is the acid. Water with a high KH is like a mattress with very strong springs. With strong springs, then the more you bounce on the mattress. The more you jump on the mattress, then the more the mattress springs lose strength, allowing less bouncing. This describes your situation perfectly

@Lindasue As you add your acid, you will notice the pH go down for a few hours, but, after a few more hours, you will then notice the pH bounce back up to where it was in the beginning. This is due to your quite high KH.

As you add acid, then there is less KH, but takes a tremendous amount of acid to lower KH.


Do not use phosphoric acid. The salt of this acid is phosphates and you do not want to add more phosphates to your pond water. This will create a massive algae explosion for you.

Muratic acid, also called pool acid or hydrochloric acid, is more suitable, but this is incredibly caustic and dangerous!! Be sure to wear a gas mask and a chemical suit. I know there are fella's that do not bother with these safety precautions, but all it takes is for one misplace drop or inhalation of fumes and you have a serious chemical burn or pass out.

Do not use these acids unless you are fully comfortable to do so. Personally, I would recommend you to avoid these acids


@Lindasue Also, look into using liquid test kits. Test strips are nice for a quick test, but they are not very accurate at all. Test strips act like a fire alarm in that the strips sends an alert to tell you if something is wrong. Once you know something is wrong, then you need to pull out your liquid test kit to get better details.

Your pH should actually not be as high as 9.0 if your GH was at 26, but, since I am guessing this is not city water due to the high KH level, then most likely there is something else in the water influencing the 9.0 pH.... but... Do a liquid test kit test first on your pH and KH before deciding to do anything else.

Woh!! Full stop! Hold on there... Stop! Do not pass go!

Your water with a 19 KH will require a tremendous amount of acid to lower this.

No way is gypsum ever strong enough to lower your pH with a KH as high as 19.

The 29% phosphoric acid concentrate of Botanicare would make a dent, but you will need quite a bit of it to burn through 19 degrees of KH before your pH starts to lower.


The best way for me to describe what is happening here is to use my mattress example. The mattress is the water. The springs within the mattress is the KH. The act of "jumping" on the mattress is the acid. Water with a high KH is like a mattress with very strong springs. With strong springs, then the more you bounce on the mattress. The more you jump on the mattress, then the more the mattress springs lose strength, allowing less bouncing. This describes your situation perfectly

@Lindasue As you add your acid, you will notice the pH go down for a few hours, but, after a few more hours, you will then notice the pH bounce back up to where it was in the beginning. This is due to your quite high KH.

As you add acid, then there is less KH, but takes a tremendous amount of acid to lower KH.


Do not use phosphoric acid. The salt of this acid is phosphates and you do not want to add more phosphates to your pond water. This will create a massive algae explosion for you.

Muratic acid, also called pool acid or hydrochloric acid, is more suitable, but this is incredibly caustic and dangerous!! Be sure to wear a gas mask and a chemical suit. I know there are fella's that do not bother with these safety precautions, but all it takes is for one misplace drop or inhalation of fumes and you have a serious chemical burn or pass out.

Do not use these acids unless you are fully comfortable to do so. Personally, I would recommend you to avoid these acids


@Lindasue Also, look into using liquid test kits. Test strips are nice for a quick test, but they are not very accurate at all. Test strips act like a fire alarm in that the strips sends an alert to tell you if something is wrong. Once you know something is wrong, then you need to pull out your liquid test kit to get better details.

Your pH should actually not be as high as 9.0 if your GH was at 26, but, since I am guessing this is not city water due to the high KH level, then most likely there is something else in the water influencing the 9.0 pH.... but... Do a liquid test kit test first on your pH and KH before deciding to do anything else.

The numbers are from a liquid test kit, not strips. I have not checked anything other than ph KH & GH. There are only 5 8-10 inch koi in the pond now. A Blue Heron got 5 last summer. Since the pond is 6,000 gallons ammonia and nitrite should not be a problem.

The fish seem fine if a little slow but this is probably due to the colder weather. I am in San Diego county so it is not like the pond is going to freeze. The plants all died back last summer which is my main concern now if the koi are fine.

Thank you, everyone for you input. Happy Holidays.

 

[Lindasue]

I do not have report from the last test we did on the well. Algae is going crazy so I put in 6 qt. hydrogen prioxide. ph is still the same. I will see if my local TSC has oyster shells but I have not seen that in Southern California.

I would like to get more koi, but I'm afraid they will die. Any suggestions?