Pond or Outdoor Aquarium. A rhetorical question.

[HTH]

In another thread Waterbug told us that he has to ask several questions about peoples goals for their ponds prior to giving advice. I totally agree.

A natural pond and a outdoor aquarium are the two very different things yet we call both ponds.

The outdoor aquarium is kept as clean as possible and is highly dependent on its filtration system to maintain water quality. It is frequently has heavy stocking levels. Sometimes there are no plants at all. Yet we call it a pond. I recall corresponding with a gent that had what was essentially a swimming pool under glass for his koi. It was spotless.and awesome.

The natural pond if full of plants rooted in a substrate layer rather the pots. Minimum or no filtration is used and mother nature takes care of the water quality. It is soon inhabited by dragon flies, frogs, and whatever else mother nature has on hand.

Reality is that few ponds are at the extremes. What exists is a continuum spanning the range from pristine to mud hole. It is a choice each ponder must understand and make. Fewer mistakes would be made if this were better understood by people building ponds.

Still I lust to hear more descriptive terms. 'I have a pond' or 'my pond' is far too vague. It is too often the start of 20 questions on an array of answers based on assumptions.

HTH crawls down off his soap box.

 

[Waterbug]

Sure would make discussion easier if people at least knew they were talking about the same thing.

When I first got into the idea of backyard ponds (as opposed to mud ponds) I went on a pond tour and saw a pond that was built just like a gunite swimming pool complete with a blue surface. Koi shows use blue tubs and this keeper took that (extreme imo) idea for his pond. So for awhile I referred to that kind of pond as a Swimming Pool Pond which Koi owners took great offense to. I switched to Koi Pond which they like, although consider "Koi" as redundant.

But I don't see use of specific terms ever happening. To many Koi owners a Water Garden isn't a pond, it's a cesspool. To many Water Garden owners a Koi Pond isn't a pond, it's a swimming pool. Koi owners allow for a Mud Pond used to grow a Koi faster and bigger and better color. But there are forums strictly for mud ponds which they call Mud Ponds and would not consider Koi to be a worthy fish and instead want catfish, stugeron, gar, bass, etc.

It's this bizarre internet ego thing. I have a pond and what you have isn't. But if you mend your ways and do everything exactly as I do then you'll have a pond. It's not about ponds, it never was, never will be.

 

[HARO]

Good point, Howard! I've seen ponds from 10 gallon toad wallows to 5 acre farm ponds holding hundreds of thousands of gallons. I had a gentleman come to the garden centre two years ago and tell me he had a problem with green water. I proceeded to explain all about UV sterilization when I noticed the puzzled expression on his face. I asked him how big his pond was, and he replied "Three and a half acres."! I could have saved us both some time if I had known that at the start.
John

 

[sissy]

pond is a pond is a pond no matter what you call it it is out doors so it is a pond .Farm ponds here most go to tractor supply and buy there stuff and do nothing else no pump no filter and whatever lives in them lives n them .I have only seen one big pond here that they have a fountain head in the middle .Down in Danville there is a pond koi and goldfish and people feed them and big and all natural and no filter and no pumps and fish must be over 3 feet long and water is spring fed .

 

[HARO]

I had an uncle in Neversink, NY, who had a spring flowing out of the rocks in his yard. He built a cath basin on the hillside, about 35' by 20', and let the water flow into it. He stocked it with Cutthroat trout; no filter was ever needed, as the water was constantly being changed. The temperature of the water was between 35 and 40 degrees year-round!
John

 

[sissy]

Thats the way the pond is at the other house spring fed .

 

[Waterbug]

The definition of the word "pond" has a specific meaning in our context. So yes, a pond is a pond. But a Water Garden is not a Koi Pond (by my personal definition), a 90 gal perform pond is not a 3 acre pond mud bottom pond. Like Haro I find it reduces confusion if I know what kind of pond I'm talking about. And I'd prefer if a 2 or 3 word term could be used instead of a few dozen posts.

 

[crsublette]

Generally, I would approach them all the same, be it a water garden or koi pond or whatever. Why wouldn't I ?? The inclusion of plants may only change the reliance on particular oxidizers, but disclaimers should always be expressed when recommending any chemical. Also, the inclusion of plants may reduce the demand for filtration. However, filtration is put in place not due to the lack of plants but the filtration is put in place due to the biological demand, or fish stock density, and the desire to keep a healthy pond.

I suppose the romanticism of a pond or a watergarden persuades folk to treat it different rather than realizing Mother Nature is there to maintain balance, that is the yin and yang relationship. We don't see all of the results of death and decay that happens in the natural lakes, rivers, and natural ponds.

Yeah, I think there is that occasion where the owner might be talking about a huge acre or so mud pond. However, this should be found out quite fast since asking about the number of gallons and fish stock density should always be asked prior to even starting the discussion of most problems.

If stock density determines the distinction between pond and aquarium, then I think most folks pond's are aquariums since most folk do not want to maintain 1 fish per 2,400+ gallon, as found in natural ponds, rivers, and lakes, and generally want a much higher fish stock density.

There seems to be also another distinction where a pond is only created by a clay or soil seal with a flow through system (through heavy rains or spings or topographical diffusion) or an aquarium is something involving concrete or liner or glass. However, flow through systems can be installed on any aquarium/pond system even to the extent so that it can mimic a natural reservoir of water.

There are pump, filtration, and aeration systems for quite massive mud ponds, but they are extremely expensive since they are so large.

Practicality is quite relative to what someone can afford and I think affordability, moneys available, is what determines a person's choices.

I think koi ponders are the "better safe than sorry" crowd to ensure the fish thrive and the water garden folk are more of the "lets get back to the organics" sort of crowd. I never understood why there has to be this distinction between a koi pond and a water garden. I understand the avid hobbyist will exxagerate their persuasions to make their point to suggest that anything less than pristine clean water will make a koi sick, but we all know, or at least should be aware from other's experiences, that the koi will survive, although might not reach its potential, in a less than perfect pond.


Context is important and I understand the aggravation when not knowing the context, but the basic fundamentals still remain the same.

When we are talking fundamentals, ponds are essentially just outdoor aquariums. The basic fundamentals are always constant. The only variables different between ponds and aquariums is the chemical synthesis when dosing the water, pond's greater surface area and evaporation, increased contaminants in ponds, and the equipment and materials and methodologies will vary according to the ecosystem's context. However, the basic fundamentals still remain the same.

I think Dr. Shimek said it the best, eventhough it is about a reef coral tank, I think it can be applied to a pond in this hobby's context as well. "With all of these levels in place, a coral reef aquarium ([or pond]) is neither more nor less than a small captive analogue of an ecosystem. It meets all the necessary requirements of a small ecosystem, and there are numerous natural ecosystems just as small. Is it natural? It most decidedly is not! Can it be a functional ecosystem? Absolutely! When this functional ecosystem is well set up, it is an efficient and easy way to manage and keep our coral reef animals ([or pond]) in the peak of health."

 

[Mucky_Waters]

When looking at this hobby, besides the actual shape and landscaping of the pond, it seems there are three different features, or "goals", people focus on when they design a pond;
(1) the flora, (2) the fauna, (3) the water movement.

(1) When people tend to focus on this area they end up with more of a water garden.
(2) Certainly koi people tend to focus in this direction, but just about every pond has some sort of fauna, whether it be fish, or frogs, or turtles, or whatever, except for a few who might focus on number 3.
(3) Water movement is an important feature to ponds, from waterfalls, to streams, to fountains, to ornamental spitters. In fact many people forgo the flora and fauna entirely and as satisfied with just simply having moving water in the form of some sort of water feature, and even the most focused koi keepers usually incorporate some sort of flowing water feature in their ponds, even if it is totally unnecessary for raising healthy koi. There is something about the sight and sound of water flowing that appeals to the human human psyche.

Of course many ponds are often a blend of those three features, but a body of water without any of those things would be pretty boring, in fact it would be hard to call it a pond at all.
I didn't include filtration in those three points, because although some people spend a lot of time and effort with filtration, and it seems to be one of the most discussed subjects, it is more of a means to an end then an end goal, in most cases it is something people would rather try to hide than display as a prominent feature of the pond, and if they could do without it, they would.


On a personal note, when I was a kid I spent a lot of my summer holidays playing around ponds catching frogs and turtles, in fact I use to make extra spending money sometimes selling turtles that I caught. I was always intrigued by the density and diversity of life that could be found in ponds compared to fresh water lakes, and that to me is a "pond", but I accept that to others a pond means something else. Obviously to many it's all about the koi, in fact I would venture a guess, that more money is spent on koi then any other aspect of this hobby. Funny thing is, in all my childhood years hanging around ponds I never even saw one koi, so I guess that's why I don't personally feel koi are an integral part of a pond. But that's just me.