Pond Liner - again

[mrick]

I have to replace my liner - again. I hired someone to do it and it is leaking so they punctured it somewhere.

I am thinking of going a little larger this time around. Looking at a liner 20 ft by 20ft. What liner should I use? Where should I get it?

How heavy? Can I install this by myself? Pond with 3 foot deep in places.

Thoughts? Advice?

 

[poconojoe]

EPDM 45 mil is the standard and you need to purchase the underlayment along with it. EPDM is like a tire inner tube, a thick very flexible rubber.
Some have used HDRPE which is strong, but stiffer to deal with and usually doesn't need an underlayment, depending on your soil.
My pond is EPDM with underlayment and my 14'x5' bog is HDRPE with no underlayment. My soil here in Pennsylvania is clay based and I picked out the rocks the best I could.
The HDRPE is stiff, but if you fold the corners like your wrapping a gift, it's manageable. If you get the HDRPE, make sure it has the R for reinforced. HDPE doesn't have the reinforcement strands.

Stay WAY FAR away from a PVC liner. Believe me, the lower price is tempting, but in the long run you will be saving money by not having to replace you liner in a few months. I can tell you that from experience when I was a novice and thought I was saving money.

Your liner is the very basic component of your pond. Don't skimp on it. You will end up taking everything apart and stressing out your fish. Probably what you are going through now.

There are a few good online liner sellers. I have bought from "American Talapia" which had good prices and free shipping. I have read here that some people like "Just Liners". Research online and see for yourself.

Good luck. Any questions, just ask and let us know how you make out.

 

[Mmathis]

What type of liner did you use?

A 45 mil EPDM shouldn’t puncture, so guessing it wasn’t one of those. Are you sure there was a puncture?

 

[Lisak1]

I was going to ask the same question - @Mmathis beat me to it. Are you SURE it's leaking? From spending years on this forum, most "leaks" turn out to be something OTHER than the liner.

Just trying to save you some effort and money! You may visually be looking at a tear or puncture - in that case, ignore the question!

 

[mrick]

What type of liner did you use?

A 45 mil EPDM shouldn’t puncture, so guessing it wasn’t one of those. Are you sure there was a puncture?

Yep. My guess is they ripped it putting the chop block down around the parameter. Chop block is heavy and rough.

 

[mrick]

I was going to ask the same question - @Mmathis beat me to it. Are you SURE it's leaking? From spending years on this forum, most "leaks" turn out to be something OTHER than the liner.

Just trying to save you some effort and money! You may visually be looking at a tear or puncture - in that case, ignore the question!

Yes. I don't know what else it could be. My pond is like a small in ground pool. I have flag stone in the back and the liner goes under the chop block and wraps around. The flag stone sits on top of the chop block and covers the liner. From the pond side all one sees the the chop block that forms the wall. That's why I want to do it myself. At 70 years old I wonder how heavy it will be and if one man can do it.

 

[Lisak1]

Most "leaks" are either low edges or plumbing leaks. I would eliminate both before I started removing liner. Do you have a waterfall?

What's chop block by the way? Can you post some pictures - that usually helps with advice!

 

[poconojoe]

Yep, i agree...check your plumbing and waterfall if you have one. Most of the time it's the waterfall, then I would say second choice would be any plumbing outside the pond. That's why I have all my plumbing within the pond/bog. Water can never leak out of my setup, unless I get a leak in my liner.

 

[Mmathis]

Yes, pictures would be helpful. I just can’t imagine that a 45 mil EPDM would tear or puncture that easily.

 

[mrick]

Most "leaks" are either low edges or plumbing leaks. I would eliminate both before I started removing liner. Do you have a waterfall?

What's chop block by the way? Can you post some pictures - that usually helps with advice!

I will try to take some pictures. This is what chop block looks like. Mine is 8in X 8in.

 

[Lisak1]

Ah. Gotcha. That must be a regional name for it.

Unless they were dropping that from some height or dragging it along the liner I can't see that it would tear that easily. Especially at the size you indicated was used - those are too small to do any damage if they were just stacked like one would expect. An overly taut liner install could create spots that could tear I suppose, but again, that would take some doing.

And honestly if they DID tear the liner during install, I'd be calling them back to fix it... unless you had issues with them and know that ain't gonna happen!

 

[mrick]

Not calling them back. Sometimes cheap is not good. If I had hired the professional pond guy and paid 3 times as much it would have been done and better cost less in the long run.

Here are the pictures requested. One with the water depleted and one full. The "waterfall" is the garden pot with filter material. It acts as a skippy filter. It can't leak because it is on the pond ledge. The idea is that the flagstone should cover the chop block and the water should come to the bottom of the flag stone.

I used a 15X20 liner last time. May make the shelf larger on the sides and go with a 20X20 if I start over. But the question I have is if I will be able to handle the liner by myself or if I need to have someone else do it.

 

[Mmathis]

What is the green carpet-material covering the liner? It doesn’t look like algae. How is the top of the liner secured? Is there a possibility that water is wicking out of the pond? IOW, are you absolutely sure that the “leak” is due to a punctured liner?

Also, the way your pond is built, with the ground edge higher than the pond, you are in danger of having lots of run-off getting into the pond. This is a bad thing if you have fish. Is there any way you can raise the edge.

 

[mrick]

What is the green carpet-material covering the liner? It doesn’t look like algae. How is the top of the liner secured? Is there a possibility that water is wicking out of the pond? IOW, are you absolutely sure that the “leak” is due to a punctured liner?

Also, the way your pond is built, with the ground edge higher than the pond, you are in danger of having lots of run-off getting into the pond. This is a bad thing if you have fish. Is there any way you can raise the edge.

It's an angle thing on the edge. Pond edge tilts away. Garage side flag stone has 4 in perforated pipe underneath, taking water to surface away from back flagstone area. So no issues there for the gold fish.

Yeah I was experimenting with outdoor carpet for the ledge. The top of the line goes under the chop block and folds back over the top. Held in place by the flagstone. So considering the chop block pond wall is wrapped with liner, it shouldn't leak.

 

[Mmathis]

Maybe the carpet is wicking water out of the pond?