Pond Filter

[pugle1]

I've built this filter ...

but I'm finding it hard to seal the lower filter water return with silicon. The silicon won't adhere to the plastic wall of the drum. I'd like to use polyurethane foam, and I know that it's used as "water fall rock adhesive"., but what I want to know is this... Is polyurethane foam toxic to fish once it's cured? And help / advice will be greatly appreciated.

Paul

 

[sissy]

did you try sanding the drum to roughen up the plastic .I had to do that with my plantianer filter tank .I also used nail polish remover to clean it good .You can use just regular spray foam in a can too .

 

[addy1]

I tried silicone, ended up using pl roofing sealant. The Silicone would pull off real easily. I wipe down the area to be sealed with acetone, also roughen up with sandpaper.
The foam does not seal it just directs the water. Water will seep though the foam.

 

[Catfishnut]

I've built this filter ...

but I'm finding it hard to seal the lower filter water return with silicon. The silicon won't adhere to the plastic wall of the drum. I'd like to use polyurethane foam, and I know that it's used as "water fall rock adhesive"., but what I want to know is this... Is polyurethane foam toxic to fish once it's cured? And help / advice will be greatly appreciated.

Paul

Paul, the PU foam or other PU products won't be toxic. You're alright there.

But, allow me to recommend this adhesive. 3M's 5200 white polyurethane Marine adhesive in a 10 oz caulking tube.

You can purchase it on line at the cheapest price I can find from Jamestown Distributors.

Not many adhesives adhere well to HDPE plastics, but this one is quite good. Rough up the surface with a wire brush and clean the area of all grease
or oils and dirt. Then use a regular propane torch and just graze the general area with the flame. Don't melt it, just brush it over like you were painting it.
This changes the "energy" of the polyethylene molecular strings in the HDPE plastic and makes it more conducive to adhering the adhesive to it.

Gordy

 

[pugle1]

I really appreciate all the feedback. Before I got a reply, I went ahead with the PU foam as the water level stays low in the drum and the pond shop I use assured me that PU was not toxic once cured. I'm going to see how that works, but if it leaks, I'll try Catfishnut's suggestion. HDPE is a great material that takes years to degrade which is why I chose it, but so far, all adhesives just peel off. So here's to hoping the foam works... if not, it's off to the 3M catalog.... Thanks everyone.

 

[gardengimp]

Like everybody else has told you, pu foam isn't toxic. However, it won't stick and stay stuck. Might stick for a bit and tease you ... Then one day just let loose.

 

[pugle1]

ok ... again, tried the foam before I got a reply here, and you all were right. The outlet joint leaks. So Gordy, I'm going to try your method with the 3M 5200. The test run I did with the filter was quite good, It caught a lot of the solids and debris from last fall and washing out the filter is a snap!. I can't wait until it's in full operation.

Thanks again everyone!.

Paul

 

[Catfishnut]

Hey, sounds great Paul.

Please remember that HDPE plastic is used for drums and barrels because it has the properties of not reacting to, not adhering to and not absorbing anything.
These are HDPE's positive attributes. For us, these traits can also be a negative aspect.

Be advised that NO inexpensive and simple adhesive adheres very well to HDPE. It is only because the 3M 5200 is the best that I have found that I recommend it, but it is not perfect for the application, either - almost nothing is. However, if you follow my instructions regarding cleaning and flame treating, I think you will find this adhesive to be satisfactory.

Make sure that you do NOT use a petroleum based solvent to clean the HDPE plastic. No gasoline or kerosene! Try dishwashing detergent and warm water, dry and follow with a pure alcohol rinse.

Scuff the surface mildly with a clean wire brush and then run the flame over it just before applying the adhesive. It will still peel off if you grab hold of it and pull, but it should hold better than anything else. If you treat the surface area for a wide pattern and then "feather" the adhesive out over a larger area, it should hold better.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: Make sure that you allow it to fully cure! It requires up to seven days to do so, so you'll have to be very patient.

Let me know how it turns out for you.

Gordy

 

[pugle1]

I will Gordy... and probably post some pics too. I work in the chemical industry and know these drums pretty well, but this is my first project actually using one. I was planning on acetone as a cleaning agent as it "cooks off" fast and leaves no residue. I have my MPS and Propane torches at the ready as we speak . I still need to do some landscaping where I want this filter to actually sit (right now it's on a not-so-strong stand) but with the test run, I'm so impressed with the amount of solids that it actually captured!

I may just need to find some good rubber gaskets... I'm pretty good at "McIvoring" solutions to my problems. However, I really do appreciate the feedback and help. Thanks again

Paul

 

[Catfishnut]

I am working on a similar system and got the idea(s) from the same video that you posted at the start. I have watched numerous videos from Mr1SUPERB.

Because of space restraints, I am trying to redesign this sieve-type filter to fit completely into one single barrel with no external components. However, I am
finding a dilemna with this plan as each alteration that resolves one trouble creates a new hitch for another part. Gotta do some head scratching here.

Back to your sealing problem... Here is another option for you. No adhesive sealant needed as the Uniseal forms its own gasket and seals off the water.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/it...gclid=COzrsNy3ibYCFfFaMgodyQ0AHw&gclsrc=aw.ds

Gordy

 

[pugle1]

Gordy ... couldn't get the 3M stuff, but bought a similar product (or so I think...) Zinsser Wateretite Polyurethane sealant. The foam worked on the filter sock bucket, but the 3 inch out back to the waterfall is what was giving me trouble. This sealant worked great. Mind you, the leak was only about one GPH. I applied it and was running water through it the next day. No Leaks. The fish are doing fine and the filter's been running the best part of a week now. On the tube it says up to 7 day cure time, but I tried running a test the next day. The material is still "tacky" but the seal is excellent.

I must add that we've got 4 American Toads that have decided that this little pond would be a great place to mate and lay eggs ... They've been singing up a storm ... lol.

Good luck with you system, as I'm completely pleased with mine. The only difference is that the fellow that made the video was using a 2500 GPH pump where as mine is 5000 GPH. I get a bit of water bypassing ( re: spilling) over the sides of the initial debris screen, but it's catching most of the debris. The bioball container is a bit modified from his instruction ... a polyethelene 5 gallon carboy with the top removed and multiple holes drilled through like the wall he made. Five gallons of bioballs for lots of growing surface fills that container which is weighted down by a stone. For a filter sock ( until I can get a proper one ) I used a small "needle point" hoop and some sheer curtain fabric with a very tight mesh. Works a charm.

Cheers!

 

[pugle1]

I am working on a similar system and got the idea(s) from the same video that you posted at the start. I have watched numerous videos from Mr1SUPERB.

Because of space restraints, I am trying to redesign this sieve-type filter to fit completely into one single barrel with no external components. However, I am
finding a dilemna with this plan as each alteration that resolves one trouble creates a new hitch for another part. Gotta do some head scratching here.

Back to your sealing problem... Here is another option for you. No adhesive sealant needed as the Uniseal forms its own gasket and seals off the water.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/it...gclid=COzrsNy3ibYCFfFaMgodyQ0AHw&gclsrc=aw.ds

Gordy

The fellow where I got my bioballs suggested a "uniseal" and had 2" in stock but not 3" .... so far the sealant I'm using is working well and there's no sign of stress to the fish .... they've been exposed to this stuff for a week now, and they're "as happy as fish in a pond". I believe this stuff has no VOC's to worry about. There are none indicated on the tube.

Cheers!

PS Gordy .. if you do build this system, if you look at his follow-up video he made the addition of a "wash-out" tube to get rid of the stagnant material on the left side... I made a slight mod... I just gave the trough a slight downward slope going to the filter sock. No material sits on the left side of the screen. Also, he built an 90* elbow from the filter sock container back to the drum. I just made a straight connection. I'll post some pics in the next few days.

Paul

 

[pugle1]

ok.. so here's a few pics of my own version of the above filter.... works great so far and I'm totally happy with the design.

 

[Catfishnut]

Pugle,

Looks like it is working well! Nice pix.

I did view the "upgrade" video with the added port to flush the water and trapped debris on the left side down the collection trough. I kinda wondered why he didn't just increase the angle of the trough like you did. Seems easier up front, but maybe not so easy after it is already constructed.

I cannot tell from the pix of your sock filter if that is a nylon mesh or a fabric weave style, like a cloth bag. I'd recommend going with the mesh (nylon or other poly material) instead of a woven or cloth style. The mesh will prove to be much easier to clean and keep clean than the "cloth-like" filter socks.

I like your overflow protection system (basket) on the sock filter housing! Great idea and ready-made for the purpose!

Gordy

 

[pugle1]

Gordy,

There are some minor differences between mine and what you see on the videos (part one and two). I did originally include that little "flush line" for the left side, but he said he was using a 2500 gph pump ... mine is a 5000 gph, so I made the orffice in the "outlet" a little larger. What I found is this..... the flow onto the the wash-out screen is a little overwhelming for the system as he designed it, I still have that little wash-out tube that he provided in his updated video, but at 5000 gph it's pretty much useless.

The "trough" made of ABS in my system is on a slight downward grade, and I tried the modified screen that he used, but again at 5K gph it was a little too small for the volume of water. What I did was bought an expandable 12 x 18 " expandable window screen. Now... here's where my filter and his differs... He used 100 mesh SS screen. I couldn't get any of that cheaply, plus in some of the replies to his video, the 100 mesh clogs up fast. My expandable window screen has a layer of "sheer" curtain fabric between the layers of the sliding screens..... Too, my filter sock is made of the same "sheer" curtain material, set into a plastic " needle point hoop" and just trimmed to size. I don't know the "mesh" value of the sheer curtain material. but HECK! it works great.

Too, at 5000 gph, a lot of water spilled over the "solids" trough leading to the filter. I compensated for that by using the cut-out for that trough as a "splash redirector".

I'll try and post some photos with the water flow off so you can see what i'm talking about..

Once the sumac grows in you probably won't even see the filter at all .... I plan to place a hanging plant on to to help cover it too.

Gordy, after a 24 hour period, I was collecting almost baseball sized samples of solids caught. Even without my personal mods and improvisations ... it's a great system. Just a little tweeking and I'm sure this will be a great system. Kudos to Mr1Superb for the vids he posted. It's a really good system for capturing the larger stuff that bacteria can't handle.

Another difference was he built a wall to contain his bioballs..... I used a 5 gal carboy with the top cut off and holes drilled in similar to those he drilled into his "wall".

Cheers!