Percentage of shade

[tbendl]

Somewhere I remember reading a percentage of shade that your pond should have to help inhibit algae. If I remember correctly shade could be provided by covering the pond or by using floating plants, lilies, islands, etc... Is there an accepted "rule of thumb" like 60% shade?

 

[Mmathis]

Good question, and yes, I recall seeing something like that as well. Right now I'm [patiently.....] waiting for my water lilies to start putting out that coverage for me.

 

[sissy]

I have a stock tank in the basement and it iis the 150 gallon one with a couple of baby fish in it and in the darkest corner of the basement with and LED light that stays on and the tank is crystal clear with no algae and no filter ,just a small pump .Darn baby fish sneak up on me in the pond .There are 15 tiny ones .Makes you wonder about a pond in full shade out side .I started a hoop house over my pond .I am using 1 inch water line and cutting them to length .Trying to get it done before the heat really gets bad ,but other things come first for now

 

[tbendl]

Have they started blooming? Mine are going like gangbusters now.

 

[tbendl]

And sissy, I'm hoping I can accomplish the same thing only with floating plants and maybe an island.

 

[crsublette]

I do not remember the precise number, but all of the hobbyist outlets seem to have some sort of number that, now after I have done this for a while, I honestly think they pulled the "shade percent number" out of their "uh oh".

Is this being asked due to algae concerns? If so, shading only helps to an extent, but, unless you're wanting to put a lid on your pond or entirely cover your pond with plant foliage, the shading will only help to a small extent. If there is even a sliver of water that gets exposed to sun light or filtered sun light, then I guarantee there will be noticeable algae growth if the nutrients are available.

I always viewed shading as a secondary benefit of plants. The primary benefit of plants is their nutrient consumption.

Readily available phosphates is generally the limiting variable for algae. Fish poo contains a tremendous amount of phosphates, but, as the poo decomposes, not all of the phosphates are readily available to be plant soluble (fertilizer), except eventually microbes make the phosphates into plant soluble. Phosphate solubilizing microbes (PSM or PSB), that is whom makes phosphates plant available, are very finicky growers and takes proper conditions for them to release plant available (soluble) nutrients. All of the accumulating plant unavailable phosphates essentially creates a "phosphate bank", that converts to plant available phosphate rather slow or quite fast (depending on the PSM/PSB). So, even though your phosphate test kit says you have zero or very low phosphates, this is a lie since these easy, simple hobby phosphate test kits are only a test for soluble phosphates instead of testing the volume of the "phosphate bank".

As plants significantly grow their roots and start blooming, then the plant has a high demand for phosphates. Not all plants are created equal in their phosphate consumption, such as herbs and leafy green plants consume very little phosphate. You want a plant that is a prolific bloomer or prolific root grower (i.e., invasive plant), aided with proper pruning to get even more blooms or to control the roots, if you want your phosphates to lower.

If the shade question being asked is in context of algae concerns, then focus more on the type of plants you are growing.

 

[tbendl]

Hi Charles and yes it's related to algae growth. I was under the impression that due to my pond being in direct sunlight, shade would help control the pea green soup color of my pond. I don't have fish but apparently need to add additional plants to help with the green. Thanks.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I do not remember the precise number, but all of the hobbyist outlets seem to have some sort of number that, now after I have done this for a while, I honestly think they pulled the "shade percent number" out of their "uh oh".

Is this being asked due to algae concerns? If so, shading only helps to an extent, but, unless you're wanting to put a lid on your pond or entirely cover your pond with plant foliage, the shading will only help to a small extent. If there is even a sliver of water that gets exposed to sun light or filtered sun light, then I guarantee there will be noticeable algae growth if the nutrients are available.

I always viewed shading as a secondary benefit of plants. The primary benefit of plants is their nutrient consumption.

Readily available phosphates is generally the limiting variable for algae. Fish poo contains a tremendous amount of phosphates, but, as the poo decomposes, not all of the phosphates are readily available to be plant soluble (fertilizer), except eventually microbes make the phosphates into plant soluble. Phosphate solubilizing microbes (PSM or PSB), that is whom makes phosphates plant available, are very finicky growers and takes proper conditions for them to release plant available (soluble) nutrients. All of the accumulating plant unavailable phosphates essentially creates a "phosphate bank", that converts to plant available phosphate rather slow or quite fast (depending on the PSM/PSB). So, even though your phosphate test kit says you have zero or very low phosphates, this is a lie since these easy, simple hobby phosphate test kits are only a test for soluble phosphates instead of testing the volume of the "phosphate bank".

As plants significantly grow their roots and start blooming, then the plant has a high demand for phosphates. Not all plants are created equal in their phosphate consumption, such as herbs and leafy green plants consume very little phosphate. You want a plant that is a prolific bloomer or prolific root grower (i.e., invasive plant), aided with proper pruning to get even more blooms or to control the roots, if you want your phosphates to lower.

If the shade question being asked is in context of algae concerns, then focus more on the type of plants you are growing.

The scientific community may disagree with Phophorus being described as the limiting nutrient for all algae. It certainly is for filamentous algae, but planktonic algae growth is limited by Nitrate availability And then with diatoms, growth is enhanced by Phosphorus until a certain level is reached. Beyond this level Phosphorus inhibits diatomic growth..

 

[crsublette]

Hi Charles and yes it's related to algae growth. I was under the impression that due to my pond being in direct sunlight, shade would help control the pea green soup color of my pond. I don't have fish but apparently need to add additional plants to help with the green. Thanks.

And specific additional plants. Not all plants consume particular nutrients equally.

Generally, if you want to lower Nitrates, then involve plants that produce dense foliage. Generally, if you want to lower phosphates, then involve plants that are significant bloomers and/or are quite invasive growers.

Also, plants maybe restricted from consuming nutrients due to a lack of another nutrient. Potassium helps, to a degree, with plants consuming for phosphates, which is one reason why I use potassium chloride instead of salt (sodium chloride) to help protect the fish from any potential nitrite buildup.

Generally and ultimately, the best way to control algae is building a pond that is conducive to good solid capture and transport, which then can be used to feed an external bog or flower grow beds on the pond's parameter but I understand how, generally, watergarden ponds are not conducive to this idea and I totally understand (not trying to give anyone a hard time).

 

[crsublette]

Something else to think about... if you're not capturing the solids...

Use a fish feed that is lower in protein and feed more often throughout the day...

Without getting too technical... lower protein fish food has higher carbohydrate fillers... this will increase the organic carbon content of fish poo... this organic carbon will help with making nutrients more plant available... and make sure your pond is well circulated, oxygenated. The quicker you can make nutrients plant available then the sooner plants can remove the nutrients.

Typical fish food is high in nitrogen due to the protein and deficient in organic carbon (such as carbohydrates). To properly decompose fish poo sooner rather than later, then a C:N ratio of 20:1 (generally) is needed and typical 32%+ protein fish food has only a ratio of 6:1 (don't quote me on that, this is just to try to illustrate my point). So, good value fish food generally is quite organic carbon deficient, which allows the "nutrient bank" to grow until everything is released all at once (which is not good) due to something that is introduced to the pond that boosts the organic carbon levels.

Omnivore fish are more grazers than one time meal per day fish (like carnivores). Koi and goldfish will supplement their protein from eating algae and bugs and fish fry. So, don't worry about the lower protein content of the fish food, just feed more often (like 7 or 8 times a day). Automatic feeders are awesome but only fill it with enough food for one day so to avoid accidents.. Or.. feed whenever you want... that is with a lower protein fish food

Not for sure this helps or not. Just something interesting to know

 

[addy1]

Very interesting. Did not know that about foods.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Something else to think about... if you're not capturing the solids...

Use a fish feed that is lower in protein and feed more often throughout the day...

Without getting too technical... lower protein fish food has higher carbohydrate fillers... this will increase the organic carbon content of fish poo... this organic carbon will help with making nutrients more plant available... and make sure your pond is well circulated, oxygenated. The quicker you can make nutrients plant available then the sooner plants can remove the nutrients.

Typical fish food is high in nitrogen due to the protein and deficient in organic carbon (such as carbohydrates). To properly decompose fish poo sooner rather than later, then a C:N ratio of 20:1 (generally) is needed and typical 32%+ protein fish food has only a ratio of 6:1 (don't quote me on that, this is just to try to illustrate my point). So, good value fish food generally is quite organic carbon deficient, which allows the "nutrient bank" to grow until everything is released all at once (which is not good) due to something that is introduced to the pond that boosts the organic carbon levels.

Omnivore fish are more grazers than one time meal per day fish (like carnivores). Koi and goldfish will supplement their protein from eating algae and bugs and fish fry. So, don't worry about the lower protein content of the fish food, just feed more often (like 7 or 8 times a day). Automatic feeders are awesome but only fill it with enough food for one day so to avoid accidents.. Or.. feed whenever you want... that is with a lower protein fish food

Not for sure this helps or not. Just something interesting to know

It is also worth noting that a lower protein fish food Is also beneficial to the entire aquatic food chain. Simple carbohydrates (sugars) are more readily consumed by bacteria and algae than protein, which being the base of the food chain, only strengthens the progressively higher levels. Providing more natural food for the fish.
Note: this is not a desired scenario in a typical dedicated Koi pond even though it is ultimately healthier for fish.

 

[Dave 54]

Both Charles and Meyer do have some very good points and you could feed a lower protien feed to them but remember we switch to a higher protien feed for one specific purpose and that is looking to get your fish safely through the next winter with enough in the way of body reserves to survive it.
tbendle take a look at your feeding routines water perameters, the way you do things such as water changes filter maintenance etc
If you find them wanting or you think you could do more on the pond do so, change them take a fresh look at everything
This should enable you to see why you are getting exessive algae, as to shade on the pond thats totally down to you the owner ,we tend to shade our pond in the summer months to 50% shade simply because we have a sun trap situation in our back garden .
The only algae we ever get is on the sides and bottom of the pond we dont get pea green water nor do we get string algae , the only difference between our pond and yours ours we have a formal koi pond yours is more natural .
However that doesnt stop alott going on in our pond such as weekly maintenance , water perameter readings , water changes and filter cleans "spring mid summer and late fall".

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Apologies to Tara, as this thread has certainly gotten off-topic since she doesn't have fish.

 

[addy1]

opppps sorry Tara we blew this one. Food has nothing to do with shade................unless you cover the surface with it!