Noob filter/pond questions

[Faultless]

The Story:
Me and my wife recently purchased a foreclosed home. The last few months I have been avoiding the pond that came with it(we weren't even sure if we were going to keep it). To my best guess it is roughly 2500 gallons and came with no pump,filter or anything. It had no fish except for some small guppies/minnows and a small turtle(will he be a problem?). We don't plan on having allot of koi mostly just some gold fish because I hear they are easier to keep.

My background:
In my life I have owned many fish tanks, I currently have a 125g and a 30g reef tanks. This gives me some insight on testing/chemicals/balances and filters.

My plan:
I want the easiest filter system possible at least something to get me by for the next few years until the kids are older and the house needs less attention. I don't mind spending a bit of money, just really not in the mood for another DIY project.
This is what I have found
Filter :http://www.amazon.co...ds=tetra+bp2500
Pump: http://www.amazon.co...eywords=dhp4200

They both seem to have great reviews across multiple sites.

My main question:
How should I finish it off? We like the idea of a waterfall but after doing some research on the spill overs I do not have enough excess liner to prevent spill out. Does anyone have any other ideas to put the water back in the pond?

Edit: I wanted to add that the pond averages about a foot and half deep with the deepest part going to about 3 feet.

 

[sissy]

first congrats on your new home and yes goldfish are easier and pump and filter depend on budget and do it yourself and to be honest those filters never work like they say .Build a filter and fill with plants cheaper and easier .



2 filters less than 25 dollars and a tote and a plantainer and plumbing pipes free from left overs from house build .Lava rock and plants and pump harbor freight one 79 dollars









sump pump hose less than 10 dollars .I went cheap 13 fish and I have 2 koi also

 

[Waterbug]

Did I see this question posted in a another forum? If yes, that's certainly fine, but just wondering what that thread said and your reaction. Hate to rehash the same stuff.

The filter is worthless. I'm sorry, that's not really fair...the filter is worst than worthless. Unless maybe if you clean it everyday. It's isn't the brand or model, it's basically every mass market filter. They're almost exclusively sold to first time buyers. And the reviews...":this is my first pond and first filter I've ever seen and I now know this is the best filter available". Not too compelling imo. You will get that over and over again in ponds...experience with a single pond for a short time is not valuable experience. Like everything.

When I sold my San Jose home the new owners kept the house, and I offered to help with any questions. They hired a pond expert. That pond had no filter other than the pond itself. The pond expert fixed this by moving the pump from the skimmer to the bottom of the pond and added a filter like the one you link. Couple of grand, thank you very much. When I was at the house for a visit I saw the filter leaking away...not my pond, not my problem. A month or so later I get an email, raccoon torn a hose off the filter, pump now being at the bottom of the pond drained the pond dry in a few hours. I'm sure they called the pond expert back out to remove a few more grand from their pocket and "fix" the pond even more.

So yeah, I think these filters are worst than worthless. Only thing more worthless are self proclaimed pond experts who were working at McDonalds yesterday.

Don't put the pump at the bottom of the pond. And as far as pumps go I think they're all about the same. I've had pumps that didn't last a month while the another pump from the same manufacturer lasted a really long time. I've never been able to tell much difference. Some pumps last and last, some don't. Back a long time ago there were more differences, some pumps had steel parts that rusted, some had oil to cool them, etc. But these days they're all pretty good. The big difference is in the basic design. Some pumps are designed to push water really high (25+ feet), but use a lot of electric. Other pumps are designed to move water for less electric but can't push very high (like 12-15' max). Go for the low head.

On filters...same deal as with fish tanks...you add filters to fix or help prevent problems. So the first question is what is it you want to fix or prevent. That drives the filter choice. Bad answers would include "I want to balance the pond", "I want a clean pond", etc. Just like with fish tanks you know "clean" means different things. A green pond is an excellent bio filter so a green pond can be completely clean of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Waterfalls don't need any excess liner from the pond. The falls gets it's own liner which is overlapped over the pond liner. You just need to create a small gap between the two to prevent capillary action, easy.

Waterfalls and streams are excellent bio filters and can even clear green water (no guarantee however).

Another option is a Trickle Tower filter. This is just a pile of rocks with water flowing over it. The pile can be placed directly in the pond or be like a waterfall. A Trickle Tower is just a condensed version of a stream/waterfall. Does the same thing in a smaller footprint. Fast and easy to make and never has to be cleaned.

 

[capewind]

First off, welcome to the group and congrats on your new home! You will find that the pond will be much easier to take care of then your reef tanks! Our last reef tank was a 180 gal, but hurricane Bob turned that upside down. When you lose $5k worth of inverts, your heart kind of goes out of it. As far as filtration goes, get your head away from the fluval/eiheim style... you want something more similar to a standard marine wet/dry system. You will get much better results, with less work

 

[Faultless]

Did I see this question posted in a another forum? If yes, that's certainly fine, but just wondering what that thread said and your reaction. Hate to rehash the same stuff.

Nope I just googled "pond forums" and you guys were first on the list.

First off, welcome to the group and congrats on your new home! You will find that the pond will be much easier to take care of then your reef tanks! Our last reef tank was a 180 gal, but hurricane Bob turned that upside down. When you lose $5k worth of inverts, your heart kind of goes out of it. As far as filtration goes, get your head away from the fluval/eiheim style... you want something more similar to a standard marine wet/dry system. You will get much better results, with less work

I haven't had any major melt downs on my tank yet except for when we were moving them into the new house, I dropped a 15 pound piece of live rock with about 6 decent frags and endless monti and polyps. This almost made me cry until about a week ago i noticed 90% of the broken pieces survived and seeded all over the tank. I prefer Wetdry/ bio filters over the flulval mech. ones. Both my tanks are filtered by Refugiums with a Bioball section.

Back to the subject at hand, I appreciate all the no BS answers on the subject. So the Tetra stuff is out, now where do I go from here... The problem with DIY I don't really have the time, Its not really about the money saving. Are there any store store bought systems that anyone would recommend? Mean while i guess I will browse around for a DIY system that looks good and quick to make.

 

[capewind]

When Bob hit us, we were without power (or generator) for eight days, and with the August heat, even one day without power could have caused major problems for the inverts. Anemones were the most hardy life form we had in there, and they too were gone within just a few days.

Bio balls, IMO are a waste of money. Sure, they have surface area, but there are other, cheaper things to use, that even offer MORE surface area. AKA, go to a hardware store and buy a couple of FLOOR BUFFING PADS... the white ones... run about $11 each up here. Just cut them up into kitchen sponge size pieces and place where you would the bio balls! Just bought a couple of new ones, so can post a pic if you need one.

IF you cant make a little bit of time, we have a Laguna 5000 filter falls running right now that we slapped on to run our pond for the short term (nothing wrong with the filter, just massive expansion coming and we got this at the right time/right place), but seriously, take a look at a skippy filter. Home made, and do a great job. You can build one in a matter of a couple of hours with basic skill and tools. A local friend just added one to their pond with a 150 gallon stock tank they ordered through the hardware store. I saw their pond before, and it was nice, but their skippy filter is blowing away their old system.

 

[Waterbug]

The problem with DIY I don't really have the time, Its not really about the money saving. Are there any store store bought systems that anyone would recommend? Mean while i guess I will browse around for a DIY system that looks good and quick to make.

Still don't know what you're trying to filter.

UV if green water is 100% effective when sized and installed correctly.

You can buy a bead filter. These can provide bio (ammonia, nitrite) if back washed often and they can remove small particles but not great. Because they they do both bio and mechanical they do nether as well as some DIY filters. The amount of time to install one can be more than DIY depending.

DIY doesn't have to take longer than installing a manufactured filter.

Trickle Tower:

1. Go to Home Depot or where ever and get some hardware cloth .

2. Form into a cylinder about 2-3' diameter, let extra mesh just overlap if to like. To connect you can use string or wire.

3. Set the cylinder in the pond in a shallow area.

4. Run pump output tube up inside the cylinder.

5. Fill the cylinder with rocks. Rocks from the yard or from Home Depot. You can rinse them off if you like.

6. Turn on the pump. Done.

IMO that doesn't take any longer than hooking up a manufactured filter and the TT never has to be cleaned, so the net is time is way less. In addition to bio filtering a TT can work like a refugium allowing string algae to grow and clear green water.

 

[johnnyi]

I'm with waterbug's advice here. I have a stock tank in a skippy-like configuration, but it wasn't until I put rocks in the 15' long stream-bed that I got and kept clear water (relatively speaking). It was quite dramatic that 3 days after putting the rocks in (horizontal trickle tower) that green water cleared.

 

[Waterbug]

If you don't like the look of hardware cloth you can use what's called a strawberry pot like this one from the Home Depot.

1. Buy pots.

2. Set in the pond.

3. Fill with rock.

4. Put pump output hose at top.

5. Turn on pump. Done.

Lots to choose from, Terracotta, ceramic, plastic. You want a tall one. You can set it on a concrete block in the pond as the part above water is what works as a Trickle Tower.

 

[capewind]

okay Waterbug... you got MY attention with this one... You know I have a hard time grasping other types of filters... Trying to learn them, but I drive hubby nuts as I just cant understand them til I can see it, BUT I have an extra PLANTER... can you explain better to me? Do you fill each pot with rock? How small? I am visulizing pea stone... Do you just stick a discharge tube in the top pot??? Is it really THAT simple??? or am I missing something?

 

[Waterbug]

Rocks, any size you like, any kind, any shape. Fill it right up, as much as you like, just a pile of rocks. Water at the top. You can get fancy and make a spray bar or something to get water over the whole thing, but not required. Taller you make them the better, but there's no real minimum.

You might drill more holes in each pot, but not required. The idea is no standing water, flowing is best.

TT were designed based on a stream, just water flowing over rocks. TT just fits in a smaller space.

 

[capewind]

Thank you waterbug... I think I got it. Apparently you can make a filter out of just about anything LOL.

 

[Faultless]

If you don't like the look of hardware cloth you can use what's called a strawberry pot like this one from the Home Depot.

1. Buy pots.

2. Set in the pond.

3. Fill with rock.

4. Put pump output hose at top.

5. Turn on pump. Done.

Lots to choose from, Terracotta, ceramic, plastic. You want a tall one. You can set it on a concrete block in the pond as the part above water is what works as a Trickle Tower.

Holy crap I am in love with this idea! Thanks allot
Couple questions:
How often do you think it would require cleaning if at all?
To assist with my really green water should I incorporate a UV filter or will this system work on its own?
How many GPH should I move through it for about 2500 gallon pond? Would slower water movement be better on this system?


Edit: wrong pond size >

 

[Faultless]

So essential I will ave it sitting on blocks in the water to bring to to the top of the water.
Put a pipe up through the center and have it spill out onto rocks where it will trickle down through each layer via holes I added.
Do lava rocks sound like a good idea?

 

[Waterbug]

How often do you think it would require cleaning if at all?

In theory never. The idea is the water falling over the rock cleans the rock 24/7. But each case is different. For example if you build a large TT the internal rock will stay very clean for basically ever. Smaller deals, like these pots aren't perfect for staying clean, but they're easy and will work better than the filter you originally linked to which I call a static submerged media. In tests the same size TT as a static submerged media converted 30 times as much ammonia. When I say "clean" I'm speaking from the bacteria's perspective. Bacteria create a bio film attached to the rock and it feels like a slime to us.

But if you wanted to remove the pots once a year, tip them on the grass, pour some pond water on them, put it all back, there'd be no harm.

To assist with my really green water should I incorporate a UV filter or will this system work on its own?

A UV properly sized and maintained is 100% effective in killing green water algae in 3-5 days. These are excellent filters but often require tweaking, like adding a valve to control flow and adjusting the flow, which falls under the heading of proper maintenance .

Everything else is not well understood so is hit and miss. My theory is macro algae (string algae, etc.) creates a chemical that kills green water algae.Norm Meck years ago showed water from a clear pond could be toxic to green water algae. His theory was teh chemical came from bacteria but I've come to believe it comes from macro algae as it's a common thing in sea water algae, just not studied in freshwater. Green water algae would also produce chemicals toxic to macro algae. I kind of confirmed this in my own tests, but it's harder to be sure. I believe a stream, waterfall, or TT gives the macro algae more sunlight and it's able to withstand the green water algae attack and live enough to kill the green water algae.

You can speed up the process by buying a pond plant at any store and placing it at the top of your TT. The plant will almost certainly have macro algae even if you can't see it. But chances are it will form on the TT on its own.

Interestingly a UV can normally be turned off after say a month, and be left off for months, even years. The theory is after the green water algae is killed something else can grow and that thing stops green water algae from returning. It fits my macro vs micro algae theory, but no proof.

How many GPH should I move through it for about 2500 gallon pond? Would slower water movement be better on this system?

These can take any flow you give it. The rocks being covered in water is enough. Too much isn't really possible, but of course at some point there are diminishing returns. It is a very simple system from our perspective, very complex from nature's perspective but nature worked it all out long ago.

Your question is related more to fish load than pond size or flow amount. Just like with fish tanks, the amount of food given drives water quality. If you measure ammonia and your TT is more than a few weeks old it probably means you need more or larger TTs. Increasing or decreasing flow over a current TT probably wouldn't fix the issue. So just as with fish tanks water testing tells you about your filters.