new fish causing chaos-what to do???

[lily]

We have had 3 goldfish and 3 shebumpkins for a few weeks now. They were all similar size when we bought them and were about 3 inches long though I think they have grown a little already.
All was well until yesterday when we introduced more fish.
2 much smaller golden Orfs
1 Bream (slightly longer than all of the other fish)
1 Koi Carp (slightly smaller than the gold fish)

The Golden Orfs stay together and are active but dont mix with the others.

The Koi right from the start joined the group of Goldfish and Shebumpkins who are the original fish.

The Bream seemed to hang out on his own(i say he but dont know the sex of any of my fish)

This morning the Bream looked thoroughly unhappy, either being chased all the time by the others or alternatively looking dead.(floating sideways on the surface of the pond)
We have taken him out and he is currently in a bucket of water in the house and is more perky.

Another of the original gold fish has left the group and is hiding near the bottom on his own.
The Koi is very active whizzing about and is always at the side of another of the group although he seems to swim alongside a particular shebumpkin and splits this fish away from the others for a while.

Please can some one offer me help soonest as I dont know what to do to restore harmony and feel bad about my fish being unhappy.

I blame the Koi but I have no experience of fish and maybe he is just active and playing and being sociable.
Should I take the Bream back? Or the Koi?
Or put the Bream back after givng him a days rest and see what happens?

My hubby says Im picking on the Koi!!! I just dont know who is the trouble maker but they are all acting differently since the arrival of the new ones. Ultimately it is the Bream Im concerned about as he was being chased and obviously was unhappy.

The new fish were picked by my sons so someone is going to be disappointed at having their fish returned. The people said at the garden centre that they could all be put in together.

Is this normal?

 

[lily]

further to the above post, the fish seem to be going about their business outside in the pond.

The bream is not doing so well and just now I have had to turn him the right way up as he was swimming belly up.

Could this just be stress that has caused this?

Should I take him back to the garden centre to show them and can I expect to get a replacement fish or is it just tough on us?

I dont like seeing this poor fish like this and if it is going to die I wish it would happen sooner rather than it suffer.

It cant stay upright now without help. I dont know if Im adding to its suffering by keeping it the right way up. I wish some one was able to tell me if I should manually hold it upright for a while or just leave it.

 

[Squidhead]

Lily,
If I am not mistaken, you just recently built your pond? I am not sure how deep it is, but to me it seems rather small for the fish load you have.

1. Have you tested for ammonia level?
2. Have you verified your pond has established a nitrogen cycle?

I would guess from what you say that you have had fish for 2-3weeks roughly and just added more. This would be the time frame for the first load of fish to have built a toxic level of ammonia. You introduced more fish from what I would guess, pristine water conditions from the store. The toxic ammonia level will often affect the newer fish first as they have not built a tolerance to it. The older fish will only take so much. This is just speculation from problems new aquarium owners would have, but it sounds like that. More information would help as far as water quality test results. If I am correct, see if you can return all the fish you recently purchased. You have 10 fish total for now, each growing up to be 12"+/- .

 

[koikeepr]

I agree with Squidhead 100%. This pond is too small for the number of fish it has in it now, and you were at good levels with your original load. Fish, like any other creatures need the proper space for each to have enough room and be happy. It's like cramming a bunch of people into a train car--it's fine for 30 minutes while they are heading to work, but no one is happy being packed in like that.

Squid's suggestions are spot on. If you can return the new fish or find a friend who can take them, they should be re-homed. Also, don't forget to do 20% water changes each week to flush out the toxic impurities in the water.

 

[stroppy]

also i think bream grow into huge fish, and oarf like fast running water someone will correct me if im wrong

 

[lily]

Thankyou.


I took the bream back to the centre as it was distressing watching him and I thought they would know what to do.They told me it probably had an ulcer. They exchanged the fish for a gold fish.

We said what fish we had and were told that it was fine for those fish in the pond. I even said it was slightly smaller than it actually is. We werent told that the Orf would grow that big either!!!

I have just been out to re measure the fish pond. It is 4ft by 6 six feet and 3 feet deep but at one end it has a small shelf for plants. ( isnt it usually men who get measurements wrong, ha ha!)

We had been told that if the other fish survived for a week it was then okay to put in more fish. We dont have any testing kit at home and were told to bring a sample in as and when we wanted to get new fish so we will have to get some testing kit.

Thank you very much for your advice.
We will have to consider which fish to keep and which to rehome.

None of the fish are bigger than 3 or 4 inches at the moment( I have measured the length of a plant leaf which the biggest fish is smaller than, and that is 4inches.
The Orf are much smaller.(how quickly will they grow?)
The Koi seems to be a far more active fish than the others but he seems to have stopped pestering the others so that is a bit of good news and the others are back in a group.

We thought the gold fish would only grow to about five inches.

It isnt an alternative to put some into my smaller pond which is actually 4ft by 3 ft even though it now has a pump, as it is only 18inches deep. Plus there are still froglets that still have their tadpole tails on living there and other bugs etc.

I have been changing the water weekly in the amount you have said but have additionally been topping it up frequently. I guess another no no?

I dont mean to be irresponsible about the welfare of the fish and whilst we have made a mistake with a few things so far, we will work hard to get it right for them.

Next summer we were looking at getting a considerably bigger pond (when we have saved) and my hubby is wondering if the fish will be okay until then or not?

Thank you again.

 

[lily]

I think Im posting in wrong place and should be putting all posts in the beginners section. Thats my ignorance with forums.
I have been reading lots of posts through out the forum and am learning so much.
We really did not enter into this armed with enough knowledge (totally our own fault) and it has opened my eyes as to what is involved.

It makes me wonder how many people like us have started ponds and put in too many fish not realising it and resulting in unhappy and unhealthy fish.

Still I will keep on asking questions here and learning!

 

[DrDave]

We all had to start somewhere. fortunatley for you, there are a lot of folks here to help.
When I started, they didn't even have computers. LOL

 

[stroppy]

we have all made misstakes lily thats why most of us come to this forum in the first place ...im sure your fish will be fine, just keep up with the water changes untill your bio gets up and running :0)

 

[koikeepr]

Run from any vendor that tells you that if fish happen to survive for a week, then you can add more. That means they are allowing their customers to wing it and not truly educating them. They're basically saying: Here, take these, and if you don't kill 'em after one week come back for more (nevermind that your pond shouldn't have this many fish of this size). And if you don't kill them, we'll blame it on you, but of course, we also sell you more fish that are innapropriate for your pond. After all, we make money either way--so buy, buy, buy.

I truly wish more fish shops would help and educate their customers rather than just trying to sell 'em more stuff.

 

[DrDave]

I am holding a Koi now for a lady who bought it from me then told me her water was only 4 days in the pond.

I told her she needed to wait and let her pond cycle. I suggested feeders for now and she has taken my advice.

In a few weeks, her pond should be ready to support a 10" Koi.

 

[koikeepr]

there you go! You've saved the life of a fish likely, and the customer will thank you and return to you because she'll have a successful experience.

 

[rdk]

New fish in a pond can cause a change in the dynamics of the pond for sure. Sometimes a fish might be upset and go into hiding and not eat for several days but they always seem to come back. I am sure that my fish hate changes made in the pond that they are not used to but they get use to it in time. Do not worry. RDK

 

[Squidhead]

Lily, don't beat youself up. As it's been said, we have all "been there". Fortunately, there are forums like this that help people with troubles. You get yourself fixed up and end up enjoying your pond. Some people never get that far, they get frustrated and never really know what and why things went wrong. You'll get it fixed, it's just a battle right now, but a learning experience. One day everything will click and then everything makes sense.

 

[lily]

thanks again for everyones advice and support...
I got a phone call today to say that one of the small golden Orfs has died. Im worried that perhaps he starved because he was only quite small but we were told he would eat the same food as the others did and didnt need flakes.
We are rehoming the other orf and the latest gold fish and unfortunately the koi but the koi is staying until next year. (assuming and hoping no more die) This will leave the six original fish, 3 shebumpkins and 3 gold fish.
It is quite hard to accept something just dying, as all of our other pets are generally more hardy. (we have rescue rabbits, gerbils and 5 dogs and snake)
The boys are fine and accept it but are asking why and we dont know.
Hubby has said it might be our fault for having too many fish etc and has explained the things we need to learn about to try and lessen the chance of any more casualties. (note lessen, not stop!!)