Need tips & tricks for working with PVC, especially the larger diameter pipes

[Mmathis]

Sometimes I don't know whether to post in "construction" or "DIY," or "DUMMIES FOR NEWBIES!"
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Can you guys help me out? I'm always running across an issue or 2 when I play around with PVC pipe, and I wonder how other folks [or even professionals] deal with things:

1) FOR LARGER DIAMETER PIPE, for example, 4" thin-wall for sewer & drainage is what I'm using now -- It's the kind that is slightly flared at one end, and there are special fittings to use with it [standard fittings won't work, on either end], BUT I run across these same problems with any of the larger diameter pipes -- so it's not just with this particular pipe.

• I can't get a good "seat" into a fitting -- I can wiggle it, twist it, pound it......but it just doesn't want to go in -- I might get it in 1/4 of the way........
• and it's even worse when I have longer lengths, 'cause I can't get the right kind of grip, or traction, or whatever -- holding the fitting at one end and trying to insert the unwieldy pipe.....!
• and then it will be crooked......
• and it's the thin-wall stuff that's always the worse (and that's with any size)
• then, to repeat the above, when I get one pipe into the fitting, it's even WORSE when it's time to attach pipe to the other end of the fitting!
• and then, I can't twist the pipe inside the fitting if I need to make an adjustment

2) CONFUSION ABOUT WATER-TIGHTNESS & SEALING: This is the pipe I'll be using to carry water from my turtle bog back into the pond. I got it because it was light-weight [compared to sch 40 pipe] and cheaper than sch 40. The salesman said that it might not be water-tite for a "pond application," so I figured I could apply a bead of silicon sealant -- it's not going to be underwater, just a water conduit.

Right now I have my pieces laid out and sort of pushed together [doing the best that I could], and there is some leakage.

The salesman also said you could use standard PVC solvent cements with it, but 1) how does that work if I can't even get the tubing inside the fitting, and 2) would using a solvent weld mean that I would or would not still have a water-titeness issue? IOW, would the solvent weld act to "seam" the pipe shut against leakage? In that case, the silicon wouldn't be necessary, right?

But back to #1, if the stuff is so darn hard to insert, how in the heck can there be leakage?

Please help me get this conduit put together......I can't move on until this is completed!

 

[Mike in Vermont]

I used schedule 40 8 inch with no sealer. Mine doesn't leak. You may want to use sealer for yours, just to be safe. As far as getting the tubing into the fitting, you could use a board over the end of the fitting. (apply sealer first) With someone holding the piping steady you could tap on the board with a hammer. Be sure the fitting stays straight with the piping and the board covers the entire end of the fitting..

 

[Mmathis]

I've done a little research on the art of working with PVC pipe, and came up with a few possibly helpful tidbits that can make working with larger diameter PVC pipe easier:

1. 4" or larger PVC -- almost have to have a helper [so looks like Hubby's getting recruited]
2. be sure the end of the pipe is straight-cut, deburred, and beveling helps
3. if it's a very tight fit, a light sanding might be needed [hmmmm, this is already a thin-wall pipe, so I wonder if it's OK to sand inside the fitting?]
4. use registration marks so you'll be sure to have pipe & fitting alligned properly
5. following steps 1-4 is even more critical for large diameter pipe
6. use an applicator [for the solvent] that's at least 1/2 the diameter of the pipe -- so I'll need a 2" brush rather than the dauber that comes in the can
7. priming is important -- it's OK to over-prime
8. use a solvent cement that has a slower setting time -- the "gray" kind??? It's supposedly thicker, as well, which fills in gaps
9. you may have to use multiple applications of the cement
10. the can of solvent cement will indicate if it's for light though heavy duty -- use "heavy duty" which is for larger pipes
11. the solvent cement will lubricate the pipe and help it slide into the fitting easier [that's what I'm hoping for....]

Does it sound like I'm on the right track, here?

 

[SprinklerGuy]

If you are trying to fit 4 inch pipe, the bell end ( the coupling end ) can be rough to just slip in and fittings need to be butted to the "stop" inside of them.

I use the tried and true method of getting these fittings together.

A rubber mallet and Red Hot Blue Glue.

Once you have the joint primed ( which cleans and opens the pours of the pvc, so that the glue welds it together ) give the male and female ends a good helping of glue.

Don't give it time to set.

Slip the fittings together and tap into place. You will feel ( and hear ) when they are butted.

And contrary to the slow setting solvent, red hot blue glue sets in minutes and will tell you where you have been.

Am I way off or is this what u r asking?

 

[Mmathis]

@SprinklerGuy I'm pretty much a pro [LOL] when it comes to working with the smaller diameter pipes, cutting, solvent welding [with primer and cement], etc. But what you covered is pretty much what my problem has been with this larger stuff, though I haven't gotten to the point of cementing the pipe to the fittings, yet. But in attempting to "dry fit" the pieces, it seems impossible to get the pipe to even come close to going into the fitting. I know that when you dry fit, you're only supposed to insert maybe 1/4 of the way, but even with that, it's all crooked..... So I've been worried that the finished product would turn out wonky and leaky. And I'm not doing anything on the flared end -- cutting it off and proceeding like regular PVC. And I am using the fittings they sell to go with this pipe. Fittings that are straight [T's and connectors] aren't as much of an issue as are the "rounded" ones, like the 90's and another one I'm using that is an 1/8th bend. Those are harder to work with.....

I was really having a problem trying to fit the longer pieces into a fitting, but I've now discovered that you almost need 2 people to do that anyway, so I know it's not just a "me" issue

 

[SprinklerGuy]

lol .... Dry fitting is trouble, as it is a real bear to separate them.

The glue acts as a lube to fit them together and once fitted, it's good to have a glue that will set fast.

On the long pieces, try putting a cement block or something behind the other end as a stop and tap away.

 

[Catfishnut]

Turtle Mommy,

The most important items have been covered by yourself and the replies so far.
1] A square cut and deburring the end of the pipe and beveling it is very important.
2] Using the primer and correct PVC cement helps lubricate the pipe and fittings.
3] Having an assistant and a dead-blow hammer with a block of wood is very helpful.

Here are some other tips:
4] Check for any deep scratches or gouges on the exterior of the pipe before
inserting and sand them smooth with sandpaper or deburring cloth first.
Do not grind or use coarse sandpaper and only address the immediate
area of the deep scratch or gouge, do not work on the smooth areas of the
pipe or inside the fitting. Shouldn't usually have to fret about this unless
the pipe was scrapped and banged around.
5] Ensure that you use a cleaner before the primer. Window cleaner works.
6] Don't allow the cleaned, primed or glued pieces to touch anything else.
7] Use a twisting motion as you insert the pipe into the fitting or the pipe bell.
8] Use a heavy weight or blocks to prevent the pipe from backing out of the fitting.

Catfishnut