Need Serious Help

[dlp211]

Hey everyone,

So I went over to my parents house this past week and found that my step dads koi pond was algae ridden. It was so bad that I couldn't see the fish until they were at the surface. After basically yelling at my step dad about the pond I realized that he didn't know much about keeping the pond.

So after that he emptied it, put the koi in a cooler, cleaned most of the algae up, refilled it, and put the fish back in.

I am so worried about losing the fish(2 koi, 4 goldfish). I know he used stress coat and dechlorinator in all the water, and I made him go get some pond zyme, but he has no rock, no vegitation, no circulation, basically, just a little fish hotel at the bottom to protect them from predators.

So basically, I need to know what I need to do to get this pond solvent.

Dimensions are about 10'x6'x2' and it tiers down for a total of 500 gallons(measured myself). Pond is bare pond liner, no overhangs, and just a small rock hotel for the fish that I made for them.

Here is my plan of action:
1) Add vegitation, I am thinking 2 water lilies, some watercrest, and some cat tails.

2) Add an additional foot of depth by add a rock wall and using the excess liner that is lying on the ground.

3) Setting up a cascading water fall with lava rock in the bottom, and a filter pad.

4) Adding lava rock from an established pond and about 5 gallons of water from an established pond.

5) Add freshwater salt and continue supplementing pond zyme.

This is my plan of attack, unfourtantly neither of us have a great deal of money, but I am open to suggestions, my experience with ponds is basically zero, and this is what I have learned about them in the past day or so.

Thank you everyone
Dave

 

[vertigo72]

Depending how big those koi already are, you are going to need more than a filter pad (whatever you mean by that) sooner or later. Check out the DIY section of this forum to get some ideas on building your own filter cheaply.

As for plants, more is better, but koi tend to like eating and uprooting them in some ponds. Others have little or no problems, you'll have to find out. A separate small pond for plants would be ideal, but you can try putting plants in the main pond.

One thing you better buy asap is a test kit. Check the water's PH, ammonia and nitrite levels, and GH, KH and nitrates while you are at it. It sounds like its an unfiltered pond at the moment, with no plants, that means certain death for those fish over time, at least if they are getting big and you dont change the water.

Fish, especially koi, poison themselves by producing ammonia. As long as you dont filter that with a biological filter, you will have to do water changes. Partial water changes, say 10-20% at a time. Also good to dilute phosphates and nitrates (not to be confused with nitrites) which is causing the algae blossom. The plants will later take over that role, hopefully, though partial water changes are still recommended by most.

As for the enzymes you are adding; its not a bad idea in a new pond to help things get started, but there is little point in keep adding more, and it could be harmful. Bacteria will grow, you just need to give them surface area, that is, a biofilter.

As for lava rock; most people here arent fans of them. Lots of work to clean. For the filter, plastic or pvc filter media is much easier. Cut PVC 1" pipes or anything else.

As for adding salt; add salt if its needed to treat your fish. I wouldnt use otherwise. Having salt constantly in the water will just breed parasites that are salt resistant,and which you then cant attack with salt without killing the fish in the process. If you want to use salt nonetheless, do no more than ~0.1%, that way you can still increase if needed to fight off illness one day (koi will survive up to 0.5%)

 

[dlp211]

OK, the koi are about 5" and 6", the goldfish are between 3-4". He has a Tetra waterfall which takes a filter pad in it so I was going to set that up. I know it will take about 4-6 weeks to get the bateria in there, I was hoping that I could soak it in some established water from another pond and kick start it. I don't think he would go for a large external filter.

I know the koi will dig and up root, so I will be placing milk crates over the planters to protect them. My main concern is the fish, not what the inside of the pond looks like.

I'm good with the water changes until all the filteration is up to par, and like I said I am adding about a foot of depth which will almost double the capacity of the pond diluting amonia and phosphates and the like.

I will only add salt for a little bit as a proflactic. Once the pond can handle the bioload I will back off on the salt.

Thanks
Dave

 

[sissy]

The emptying of the pond was not really a very good thing for sure .The pond could have cleared with just a small amount of extra work .But since it's done now you are going to have to watch for an even worse algae bloom because now with cleaning out the pond and removing all the good stuff that was there .You are starting all over again and it is going to take time to build up good bacteria in the pond .You should have saved either some of the old pond water or the good bacteria in the filter .Hopefully the fish will make it .

 

[dlp211]

Sissy,

I know, I told him just to get some filtration going and repair his UV, but he went ahead and emptied it. I am hoping that the PondZyme works.

Like I said, I am getting some pond water from an established pond brought in. I think I will soak the filter media in that pond before installing it into ours. I am also trying to get some established lava rock from another pond.

I will be working on the pond all day sunday and monday on getting the pond in better shape.

Thanks
Dave

 

[sissy]

you have a lot of work ahead of you but make sure the pond was a healthy pond ,because you do not want to bring in anything bad .Try liquid barley when the pond is going I use it and it seems to work for me ,I even add it to my bio filter every week during the summer months .I use lava rock myself and have had great success with it .I get laundry bags from the dollar store to put it in that way it is easier to take out and clean .I soak it in salt and liquid barley to clean it and just put it back when it needs a big clean .I use some water from the pond and just add the barley and salt and then this way I can do my 10% water change

 

[dlp211]

I know its going to be a lot of work...all this while I am trying to get my 180g reef tank setup hahaha. I know someone who has a pond that has run for over twenty years now, and that is where we are getting a lot of our established stuff. He isn't around a lot to answer questions, thats why I turned here.

Thanks again
Dave

 

[sissy]

ok good then and just add more plants to the pond and that will help with the algae .I just added plants to my waterfall and my bio filter helps keep water clear and keeps algae at bay .But I do like the floating lavender scented barley pads .I think it is the combo of barley and lavender that really works better than just the barley alone .What a weekend you have ahead .I have a problem with my biggest koi who is over 2 feet long ,she likes to kill frogs not a pleasant task to take out dead frog bodies every morning

 

[vertigo72]

OK, the koi are about 5" and 6", the goldfish are between 3-4". He has a Tetra waterfall which takes a filter pad in it so I was going to set that up.

Koi grow.. a lot. That waterfall you are talking about, is it this one:
http://www.pondmarket.com/catalog/index.cfm/product/1483/tetra-waterfall-filter.cfm

If so, it will probably do for a few small fish. Then again, that pond itself really is small for koi to begin with. Rule of thumb is one adult koi per 1000 gallon assuming capable filtration. I know you are going to make it bigger, but it will still be smallish for koi, if you intend to keep them and keep them alive, I suspect you will need a more capable filter over time. Do keep doing water tests.

I know it will take about 4-6 weeks to get the bateria in there, I was hoping that I could soak it in some established water from another pond and kick start it. I don't think he would go for a large external filter.

If the filter has not been kept dry for hours, nor cleaned with tap water, then there is no need for this. Bacteria will still be in there. Using pond water from an established pond is not a bad idea, but I dont think it will do all that much either. On the filter material these bacteria still have to grow. Bringing rocks from an established filter will definitely help, but be sure you are not also bringing any parasites with you. Since your fish are still small, Id not do it, just do partial water changes and let the filter mature on its own, possibly aided with some "bacteria in a bottle".

 

[CometKeith]

Hi dlp211, Some other thoughts for the pond, besides the waterfall you may want to throw in a few airstones attached to a pump. This will help keep the pond oxygenated. I don't see where you live, but if the pond water gets warm you may have a problem with oxygen deprivation. This is the most dangerous time for your fish until you build up your beneficial bacteria. Hold off on feeding or adding any organic material like plant fertilizer that will cause your ammonia and nitrites to spike. Good Luck!

 

[DrDave]

I would not use salt yet, instead, get a bunch of water lettuce or hyacinth to cover about 60% of the surface for shade and natural filtration. Build a good bio filter and make it your waterfall base, let the water cascade back to the pond. We have lots of photos here on how to do this.
I never use chemicals, rarely use salt unless I am treating outside the pond for an illness. UV is not necessary if all these are in place.

 

[dlp211]

Hey DrDave,

I am looking at the bio filters, but I am unsure of what my waterflow should be, how high should the grate be?

Thanks
Dave

 

[DrDave]

In a 55 gallon drum, 8 - 12" is what I recommend. Look at the photos near the bottom here.
http://drdaveskoi.tripod.com/html/doc_bio_filter.html

 

[UT_Bruce]

Bacteria replicate, but they must have the right temperature, pH, dissolved oxygen and available nutrients to continue to thrive. Sometimes Mother Nature achieves this on her own. It's rare for an artificial ecosystem to be 100% self-sutaining, however. Otherwise you would never have to dredge, skim, waste water with water exchange, or clean out filters.

Your Koi Pond's PRIMARY function is to support benevolent bacteria, so they can thrive against elements, temperature, bad bacteria, excess nutrients, chemical runoff and organic waste - so that your fishies can can be healthy and whole. If you constantly monitor, control and adjust the effects of these influencers, yes, you probably can do it without supplementation. No guarantees in nature, though.

Every level of pond geekery comes with its variable solutions, and not all products are the same. While I appreciate the perspective that one can maintain a koi pond without adding bacteria, I don't understand "adding bacteria is dangerous." Because it isn't.

Adding TOO MUCH can be. But that's no different than anything else.

That said, I recommend you drain, clean, start over completely. In order for beneficial bacteria to take hold, you need to reduce or eliminate its competitors. There are some good tutorials on this site for starting up a pond; that's where I would begin. Or if you want to discuss with my offsite, I'll be happy to make suggestions.