My pond in Taiwan - I need some advice, please!

[Lumka]

Please allow me to give some background, and I apologize if the post is too long…

I live in Taiwan and recently build a pond in my garden. Ponds are pretty scarce, and so is equipment and knowledge regarding ponds. Even more so since I don’t speak Mandarin, so finding some information is hard.

My pond is small, about 500 liters, about 11 inches deep. It is made using a plastic liner and sunk in the ground, then filled with tap water. No filter, just a fountain to air the water.

I have water lilies, some parrot leaf plants and other underwater plants I don’t know. I introduced some comets, guppies, 2 yellow bellied sliders, some bottom feeding fish and a wild turtle of unknown species [to me].

1 week in after everything was introduced, fish started to die at a rate of about 1-2 per day, mostly the guppies.

Then I added a filter. No pond filters were available to buy, so I made one, using parts from an aquarium filter: an undergravel filter, onto which I tied some carbon and filter media stones, and I covered them all with a sponge, connect it to a pump that doubles as a fountain to aerate the water.

I got some chemicals to remove chlorine and different stuff for fish medicine and to improve the water quality. What exactly, I’m not sure, since the labels are in Chinese. I poured that in, and still the fish keep dying at a slow rate. Did some water changes also, but they still died.

I tested the water it seems fine. Ph is 7, NO2 and NO3 is fine.

Now, I have a few questions:

- Is my DIY filter adequate? [The pump is strong enough, but what about the setup?]

- Is it normal for the pond to need some time to settle, and the fish will be okay once it settled?

- Can the kind of plastic I used as a liner be responsible for killing the fish?

- Winter is coming. It is not so cold, around 50F at the coldest. But it is shallow. Do I need to add heaters for the comets and turtles, or is it better to bring the turtles inside?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Nepen]

Hi Lumka,
Welcome to the forum! There are many knowledgeable ponders here that can help you. I'm new to this my self but I can give you some of my opinions.

Your pond is shallow but it'll be ok if your temperature does not get down to freezing. Your guppies and some other tropical fish and sliders will have to be brought inside as they cannot live in the cold water. You can try a heater to maintain the water around 70+ F but that will be expensive. Your comets will be fine in cold water.

My 'opinion' of the reason the fish keep dying are because –

1) You put the fish in with the water that was not treated for chlorine. The damaged is already done so the fish that got the most damage are dying. I have not heard of anything to cure the damaged that’s done to the fish gills by chlorine, i can be wrong.

2) You do not have any beneficial bacteria in the pond to help with the waste that the fish produce (people calls this ‘cycle’) It takes about 4 weeks for the good bacteria to start working from the day that you start you pond/put in fountain/filter/and have a few fish to start attracting the bacteria to the pond. Fish waste produce Ammonia (Harmful to fish). The good bacteria convert ammonia to Nitrite (harmful to fish), then another good bacteria convert Nitrite to Nitrate (ok for fish). So what you have now is the pond with fish that produce ammonia but nothing to get rid of ammonia so the ammonia build up and that kills the fish.


When you changed the water, did you treat it first? You can have buckets of tap water sit out for a day or two and that also help dissolve the chlorine. You then can use this water for the pond.


Your filter does not do anything right now because there isn’t any good bacteria right now (or just not enough) because it’s been too early in the cycle. You can try doing partial water change every day for the next few weeks to try to get the ammonia level down – with treated water. that will help the fish until the good bacteria start working.


What you need is a water test kit that includes ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate reading.


I can’t imagine your filter so I can’t tell if it’s good enough or not. But you can build your own filter from DIY section here. I don’t have much of a filter too, just a place where I put lots of lava rocks and other items to house the bacteria and run water through it. Oh and I run my water through containers full of rocks and plants (container bogs) that helps as a filter too.

Hope this help.

 

[dieselplower]

Ammonia is the most important thing to test for IMO.

 

[j.w]

Lumka

We need to know if you treated your water for/chlorine and how soon did you add fish to your new pond and how many at once? Turtles can really muck up a pond fast. I think I would make a separate pond for them. I think you have too many critters in one small pond. Hope you can fix this before they all die. Wishing you the best

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Lumka

We need to know if you treated your water for/chlorine and how soon did you add fish to your new pond and how many at once? Turtles can really muck up a pond fast. I think I would make a separate pond for them. I think you have too many critters in one small pond. Hope you can fix this before they all die. Wishing you the best

Absolutely agree with everything that j.w has stated. You quite evidently have more biomass than this small pond can handle without sufficient effective filtration. Even without the turtles you likely have too many fish.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Oh! And cease arbitrarily adding chemicals and meds, especially when you can't read the labels to determine WHAT they are and what the PROPER use and dosage is. This alone can wreak havoc on an aquatic eco-system causing system wide collapse and mortality..

 

[RobAmy]

Sorry for your fish loss, but you have multiple things going on. As already said you have too many creatures. Turtles make a lot of waste. Your ammonia I bet is very high. 50 degrees is borderline with temps. The turtles are right on the edge and so are the fish for really slowing down. Feeding when this happens is very bad as the food just goes to the bottom and decays causing more waste. I really do not think your setup will work at all at its current design. Even adding filtration will not be enough, unless it is a very good setup to support that volume of fish and turtles and such a small volume of water. Adding chemicals without nothing what is wrong could be more deadly than doing nothing. A pond needs balance and your not even close. I do not mean to come of harsh just if you do not do a few things correct then more will die. I would start with thinning out and stop feeding if your are. A 50% water change with removing chlorine. If you did not do a chlorine removal at first then then may already have ir irreversible damage no matter what you do. Best of luck

 

[Lumka]

Thanks for the feedback.I really appreciate it. Will do a water change today and bring the turtles and guppies inside.
Some things I did correctly: I got the medicine bottles translated, and it is the right stuff and I followed the instructions correctly, but I did not treat the water before I added the fish. I think that was a costly mistake. I did add the fish in 3 batches and introduced them correctly, but that was before I treated the water. What are left are 5 comets in the pond. They seem to be okay and has survived this far. I'll update if things improve. Thanks again!

 

[Mmathis]

Welcome! Wow, sounds like you jumped in there, but also sounds like you tried to do your best with what was available.

1. Your pond is very small, by "pond" standards = about 130 gallons. That size won't be able to handle too many fish.
2. it's also way too shallow - even a foot wouldn't be deep enough -- the temperature of the water will not be as stable, and the shallow depth doesn't give the fish anywhere to go to either get cooler or warmer [depending on temps.] or to get away from predators.
3. As someone else mentioned, be sure [even though you can't read the labels] to add your dechlorinator as soon as you add the water, and before you add the fish.
4. When you checked your water chemicals, were you using strips or a liquid, "drop" test kit? The drops tend to be more reliable than the strips. And we'll ask that you report the actual numbers you get rather than "OK."
5. You probably did have too many fish, and adding them all at one time wasn't a good idea. You have to give your pond a chance to grow some beneficial bacteria, and that takes weeks. You would know what's going on by using your test kit. Water changes, as mentioned, will help keep the ammonia and other toxins at tolerable levels while you wait for the pond to cycle.
6. The size of the fish are important, too -- how big was the bottom feeder?
7. While goldfish are meant to be in cooler waters, I'm not sure about the guppies......or the bottom feeders.
8. Plants are good!
9. And yes, you probably don't need the turtles in there! Turtles are messy, messy critters and your pond is just too small to keep them as well as fish. Also, the turtles might try to eat your fish, esp. if the quarters are tight and the fish can't get away from them.

Can you take a picture of your pond and of your filter set-up? That might help us understand what you are dealing with. There are lots of people with successful ponds who don't use a filter -- just a pump and fountain as you have.

You say your liner is plastic..... Is it a drop-in liner or is it a sheet that you placed over a hole? I doubt that the liner is causing the fish deaths, but it is important to have a liner that is fish-safe and that will withstand exposure to the elements, plus be strong enough that it won't tear easily. Most of us use EPDM rubber liners -- they are very tough. If the liner you are using wasn't intended to use with fish, then it could have chemicals in or on it that could be harmful -- I would look into that. What was the liner?

Sorry, I know this is a lot of info for you, but like the others have already posted, these are things you need to know about. Best wishes, and get us some pictures!

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group!

Lots of good info above!

 

[Lumka]

Thanks again for the help and opinions!

Here is some feedback:

Welcome! Wow, sounds like you jumped in there, but also sounds like you tried to do your best with what was available.

1 . Your pond is very small, by "pond" standards = about 130 gallons. That size won't be able to handle too many fish.

Right now, I have 5 comets, about 4 inches in size, and 5 bottom feeders of about 2 inches each.

2. it's also way too shallow - even a foot wouldn't be deep enough -- the temperature of the water will not be as stable, and the shallow depth doesn't give the fish anywhere to go to either get cooler or warmer [depending on temps.] or to get away from predators.

Noted, I will see if I have the strength to dig it deeper!
However, space is a problem. Most homes in Taiwan does not even have a yard, so I'm trying to use what I have....

3. As someone else mentioned, be sure [even though you can't read the labels] to add your dechlorinator as soon as you add the water, and before you add the fish.

Got the labels translated, I am applying as directed....

4. When you checked your water chemicals, were you using strips or a liquid, "drop" test kit? The drops tend to be more reliable than the strips. And we'll ask that you report the actual numbers you get rather than "OK."

This one is a bit more difficult to answer. I took a water sample to a local aquarium shop for a test, so I dont have a test kit myself. It was a drop test and the NO3 color was a kind of pee yellow, the top one of the list on the reference sheet. Store worker said in broken English it is fine. Ph was 7. I did not test for ammonia...

5. You probably did have too many fish, and adding them all at one time wasn't a good idea. You have to give your pond a chance to grow some beneficial bacteria, and that takes weeks. You would know what's going on by using your test kit. Water changes, as mentioned, will help keep the ammonia and other toxins at tolerable levels while you wait for the pond to cycle.

I think this is a good idea, Ill get my own test kit. The pond seems to be settling, no more deaths this week. Just did a 30% water change and cleaning of most of the leaves and debris .

6. The size of the fish are important, too -- how big was the bottom feeder?

5 bottom feeders, each one about 2 inches. They seem to be resilient...

7. While goldfish are meant to be in cooler waters, I'm not sure about the guppies......or the bottom feeders.

The guppies have been relocated to a cozy tank inside with a heater and all. Same with the turtles in a separate terrarium.

8. Plants are good!

Yes, they seem to be thriving!

9. And yes, you probably don't need the turtles in there! Turtles are messy, messy critters and your pond is just too small to keep them as well as fish. Also, the turtles might try to eat your fish, esp. if the quarters are tight and the fish can't get away from them.

The turtles now have a nice new house!

Can you take a picture of your pond and of your filter set-up? That might help us understand what you are dealing with. There are lots of people with successful ponds who don't use a filter -- just a pump and fountain as you have.

Photos added!
Please give me some feedback if this is a workable filter setup, thanks!

You say your liner is plastic..... Is it a drop-in liner or is it a sheet that you placed over a hole? I doubt that the liner is causing the fish deaths, but it is important to have a liner that is fish-safe and that will withstand exposure to the elements, plus be strong enough that it won't tear easily. Most of us use EPDM rubber liners -- they are very tough. If the liner you are using wasn't intended to use with fish, then it could have chemicals in or on it that could be harmful -- I would look into that. What was the liner?

It is a plastic sheet that I placed over a hole. No idea what kind of plastic / rubber it is. It is used in landscaping as a ground cover to put some pebbles on it. BUT, here might be another caveat: The sheets from the store are not wide enough, so I had to glue some pieces together. I used silicon. I did let the silicon cure for a couple of days, but could the silicon be toxic?

Once again, thanks for the feedback and encouragement!

 

[Dave 54]

Lumka you are obvioulsly in love with your pond and its inhabtents but what is common amongst pond keepers world wide , the first pond is never big enough which is oh so very trure to say the very least I think everyone will agree
So Lumka tell us please what are the plans for your next pond ?
Our own is 1,000 gallons imperial "Welcome from Plymouth UK" and sadly that is where it will stay but you must have dreams what pond would you like ?
You can dig a hole and lay a liner , others have built a woodem frame and added a liner , we have a welded plastic pond with Bottom drain with wooden surrounds ,others build a breeze block pond .
So Lumka which would be the pond of your choice


Dave

 

[Guy]

Hi Lumka,

You responded to a comment about the small size of your pond by saying you might be able to find the strength to dig deeper, if digging is a problem don't forget you can build up as well. Good luck

 

[callingcolleen1]

Awe!! Cute little pond of yours reminds me of my very very first pond many many years ago. When I had a rented house when I was just 18, I had a similar pond with a big heavy plastic garbage bag as a liner. I had like three goldfish in that pond with just a little air pump and air stone that summer. Those three goldfish lived a long life and I took them with me when I moved in with my hubby and then I build a little bigger pond.... every year I was changing something! ! Enjoy your cute ltitle pond!