lost two biggest koi, sad, need advice

[Tanya]

First things first:

Pond temp: 56
Ph: 7.0
Ammonia, Nitrite, Phosphate: 0 ppm

Our home, purchased in June, came with a large, gorgeous koi pond. I'm learning, but find the pond a source of frustration. I had a successful summer with the pond, but this week had a big problem. The pond was netted and the waterfall turned off as we had temperatures below freezing for several days last week. Then we had a huge warmup over the weekend. Monday afternoon, I noticed the fish gasping at the surface. I quickly got the pump back in the pond. Within minutes, the fish all went to the bottom. We removed the net (most of the leaves are off the trees) to find our prettiest, and second largest koi, dead. This afternoon, while skimming leaves off the pond, I found our chagoi, who was about 20in long, had also died. He had been hidden under our huge lily. I feel terrible. He looked perfect, just dead. I'm sure he died from a lack of oxygen. What am I supposed to do when we have huge temperature swings? Should I have left the pump on even with the 19 degree temps? I was told by the previous owner I could take the pump out and that the fish would be fine. They always had been even for the two winters renters (our friends) lived here. I have an aerator arriving tomorrow. Right now I have the pump on, but have the water pouring into the pond from the first shelf rather than over the waterfall.

One of the frustrations I have with the pond is that there is so much conflicting information available. Some people filter, some don't and so on and so forth. I went with the turn the pump off advice and lost our two biggest fish.

This picture is from when the pond was new and the underground plumbing still worked. According to the previous owners, it didn't work well and they lost water from a leak that could never be found, so they switched to a submersible pump and rigid piping to the waterfall.

disheartened, but not ready to give up,
Tanya

 

[sissy]

do you have an aerator .Temp swings do not usually harm fish because water down deep where they live this time of year is warmer .I hope you are not feeding them .An aerator you can protect from bad weather .I leave my pond running all winter with a pond heater above it but we are warmer here .Is there a lot of buildup on the bottom

 

[sissy]

You could have just gone to a pet store like petco and bought one for now .I bought one there all the tubing and stuff with it for less than 30 dollars and it had 4 outlets .Mine is over 4 years old .Sorry to hear .Is it a liquid test kit.I see woods what about predators but guessing friends that were renters would have told you at least I hope so .

 

[dieselplower]

Hi. Sorry to hear about your fish. Beautiful pond you have there. Can you give us any more information about it, such as gallons, depth, and filtration, how many fish? I guess it does seem you are correct about the cause of death, although, I am surely no expert. Personally, I decide when to shut my pumps down based on water temperature and the forecast. I will wait until my water is in the upper 30s to shut it down. Have you been feeding your fish? What is your water temperature? I wonder a few things... The first I have sort of asked already... Do you have a filter? It sounds like maybe you just have the waterfall? Also, can you test for ammonia? I am wondering if ammonia built up rapidly after you shut down the falls. I also wonder if you have a lot of debris built up on the bottom ofthe pond? Not having a filter and shutting down the waterfall or pump to circulate the water could have caused an ammonia spike, but I doubt it, since the fish probably would be discolored (black ammonia burns). Did the gills of the dead fish look inflamed? I would be sure to run a pump or aerator 24/7/365. All year long.

 

[Mmathis]

So sorry to hear about your losses! I only have goldfish, but recently lost a quite large and beautiful Shubunkin, and I was devastated! No obvious cause of death, which makes it that much harder to deal with. You live a little north of me, so except for the actual temps, we probably have similar weather patterns. And yes, the rapid, frequent, and unpredictable changes are frustrating. I can leave my pump & filter going during the winter, but this is only my 2nd winter with the pond, so not too much experience going for me. The only thing I'm doing different this year is that I have several air stones keeping the water agitated. When it gets cooler, I'm going to raise those up, closer to the top -- reasoning that there will still be good water movement, but it won't be mixing the warmer bottom water with the colder top water.

 

[dieselplower]

I just noticed it sags ammonia and nitrite 0. How about nitrate?

 

[Tanya]

Thank you all.

There could be some buildup at the bottom. The pond isn't especially clear, so I can't see. This fall, I did clean the pond as well as I could with a long net.

The pond is rather large. The previous owner told me it is approximately 7000 gallons and about 4 feet in the center. It does not have a filter. I purchased a filter with a UV light to install next spring when I change the pump and tubing. The aerator that came with the pond doesn't work. Apparently, for the past two winters the pond had no aeration, but the fish did great, so I was going along with what everyone else before me has done. I have an aerator on the way from Amazon that I will install tomorrow and hopefully that will help our other 14 fish survive the winter.

As for my koi that died, neither had black ammonia burns. They both looked absolutely perfect with no obvious signs pointing to the cause of their demise. The pond tested at 0 ppm for ammonia. I'm thinking the dissolved oxygen levels just got too low with the warm-up we experienced. The smaller fish could handle it, but not my big boys. From here on out, I will aerate the pond year round. I'm still torn on the falls. They have never been left on after the temperatures start dropping.

TurtleMommy, I drive through Shreveport many times a year on my way to my hometown, New Orleans. Sorry to hear about your Shubunkin. I just don't feel like my pond is the same without my Chagoi. And I can't possibly tell my daughter he died. I'm going to have to find a big one in the spring and slip him in the pond!

 

[Tanya]

I just noticed it sags ammonia and nitrite 0. How about nitrate?

Also 0 ppm. I was shocked they were all 0. I was sure the ammonia would be high.

 

[sissy]

You may need to make a home made filter they work better and I use quilt batting to pick up all the fine stuff I disturb when cleaning the bottom of my pond .crushed oyster shells help the fish and they made need vitamins in there diet .In the spring I add a little organic garlic to there food to help them feed and fight off disease
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[Carolyn22]

Tanya -

beautiful pond. So sorry for your loss. I do the same thing as Diesel and that is I wait until my water temps are consistently in the mid 30's before shutting anything down. Right now we are in a temperature swing in my neck of the woods. When I go to work in the morning, I see the steam coming off the pond, when I come home from work, the fish are off the bottom of the pond and swimming around, albeit slowly.

 

[dieselplower]

If it was me, I would add a filter in the Spring and I would leave the waterfall running as long as possible. Then I would just stick a pump that moves about 400 gph in the pond somewhere that it could squirt up and keep a hole open in the ice all Winter. Ya know, I think you are doing a fine job, just got unlucky. There are a lot of people here with good advice. Keep reading and enjoy.

 

[Tanya]

I have a small pump I can do that with! I will add it and the aerator tomorrow.

I'm so glad i found this site today. You have all been very helpful and I l will be putting your advice into action.

 

[DrCase]

Welcome to the Forum
With are normal up and down weather I never worry about a few cold days
You could just set your pump about a foot below the water and shoot a jet up above the surface to add air all winter long.
Your pond looks nice

 

[adavisus]

If there was a lot of fish food or decaying plants decomposing, it only takes a couple of days for poisonous levels of decomp gases to become lethal, when the pond is frozen over

Regards, andy
http://swglist.wordpress.com/
http://www.pinterest.com/adavisus/pondering/

 

[Tula]

Welcome and I'm sorry about your koi losses. I think you're on the right path with an arerator and pump shooting upwards. I've got my pond shut down, but am running air-stones and will add my deicer if it's bitter cold later.

It is a good idea to cut your pond plants back once the weather is chilly and they start dying back….you want less organic matter decaying in the pond. Kim