Liner leak, fish storage, time to reintroduce

[DMac]

Hello-
The nitrates in my tank are very high (water cloudy, water test shows between 10-20ppm. There are two pumps (one goes to a waterfall, one goes to a filter box), and a third is a fountain/filter combo that has the filter on the top. I have put sludge buster in the water and I have cleaned these filters every day (twice a day, even) to see if I cannot get this situaiton turned around. My Ph level is at 7.6, My nitrites are down near 0. I have also changed out the 25% of the water on two of the days. When I drained it down, I could not see any leaks, but maybe the leak (if there is one) might be lower. Full disclosure--this is my 80 yr old Dad's tank--and before I came down to visit, I truly think he was not cleaning the filters as he should have been and now I have no idea what to do. If I took these fish out and put in holding tanks, could I change out all the water (cleaning the tank completely as I look for some liner leak)? Will the fish be alright in these tanks for the 48 hours that is recommended for the new water to settle out? This was a fish pond/tank that came with the house when they bought it almost 4 years ago. Two years ago, the tank was completely overpopulated (and it may be again as there are 5 fish in a 400 gallon tank)--we gave all those fish away and I emptied the tanka nd cleaned it thoroughly. He bought 5 baby fry and they have mostly been doing well until now (I think we should have no more than 3 in there, but this is where we are now, for the moment). So, I just don't know what is the best thing. I am here for 6 more days until I have to go home. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. (Yes, I have had the difficult discussion about shutting down the pond, giving all the koi away to a guy we know that has a pond, etc.---but I want to try everything that I can before I do that). I thought if I just kept cleaning the filters it would get better, but it is not. I think I can possibly keep the fish in tanks for 48 hours--is this close to correct? (Also, I've scoured the web for specific info--but if you know a site or video that tells you what to do, please post that!). Thanks so much!

 

[JRS]

Welcome to the forum DMac. 10-20ppm nitrates is not that bad at all, especially for an overstocked tank. So you have 5 koi in a 400 gallon tank, how big are they?

At some point constantly cleaning the filters is detrimental, you can disrupt the filter bacteria. Nitrates are not deadly in the low levels you have like nitrites and ammonia are. Nitrates, the byproduct of the filtration are removed by the water changes and plant uptake.

You can use a dechlorinater, if city water, and not have to wait 48 hours for the water to "settle", just try to get it as close to their current water temp as possible and add the dechlor. Adding some of the new water from the main tank to their holding tank will help insure a better transition, rather than just immediately throwing them in.

Whether or not they can be in the temporary tanks you mention for 48 hours would depend on the fish, and their size and any filtration/aeration you would be able to have on them. If you have been feeding them lately, that would not help since they will foul the water for awhile.

 

[GBBUDD]

Hello-
The nitrates in my tank are very high (water cloudy, water test shows between 10-20ppm. There are two pumps (one goes to a waterfall, one goes to a filter box), and a third is a fountain/filter combo that has the filter on the top. I have put sludge buster in the water and I have cleaned these filters every day (twice a day, even) to see if I cannot get this situaiton turned around. My Ph level is at 7.6, My nitrites are down near 0. I have also changed out the 25% of the water on two of the days. When I drained it down, I could not see any leaks, but maybe the leak (if there is one) might be lower. Full disclosure--this is my 80 yr old Dad's tank--and before I came down to visit, I truly think he was not cleaning the filters as he should have been and now I have no idea what to do. If I took these fish out and put in holding tanks, could I change out all the water (cleaning the tank completely as I look for some liner leak)? Will the fish be alright in these tanks for the 48 hours that is recommended for the new water to settle out? This was a fish pond/tank that came with the house when they bought it almost 4 years ago. Two years ago, the tank was completely overpopulated (and it may be again as there are 5 fish in a 400 gallon tank)--we gave all those fish away and I emptied the tanka nd cleaned it thoroughly. He bought 5 baby fry and they have mostly been doing well until now (I think we should have no more than 3 in there, but this is where we are now, for the moment). So, I just don't know what is the best thing. I am here for 6 more days until I have to go home. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. (Yes, I have had the difficult discussion about shutting down the pond, giving all the koi away to a guy we know that has a pond, etc.---but I want to try everything that I can before I do that). I thought if I just kept cleaning the filters it would get better, but it is not. I think I can possibly keep the fish in tanks for 48 hours--is this close to correct? (Also, I've scoured the web for specific info--but if you know a site or video that tells you what to do, please post that!). Thanks so much!

pictures please

 

[GBBUDD]

I truly think he was not cleaning the filters as he should have been

As mentioned excessive cleaning of the filter does more harm then good 90% of the time. When you clean the filter pads your washing off the caught debris. but your also washing off to a degree the beneficial bacteria. And if you use the chlorinated water your killing whats left on the filter.

if you want some help take some pictures of the pond standing back showing the pond and the immediate area.

picture of the filter

and what type of food are you feeding the fish and how much .

city water ? well?

 

[DMac]

Welcome to the forum DMac. 10-20ppm nitrates is not that bad at all, especially for an overstocked tank. So you have 5 koi in a 400 gallon tank, how big are they?

At some point constantly cleaning the filters is detrimental, you can disrupt the filter bacteria. Nitrates are not deadly in the low levels you have like nitrites and ammonia are. Nitrates, the byproduct of the filtration are removed by the water changes and plant uptake.

You can use a dechlorinater, if city water, and not have to wait 48 hours for the water to "settle", just try to get it as close to their current water temp as possible and add the dechlor. Adding some of the new water from the main tank to their holding tank will help insure a better transition, rather than just immediately throwing them in.

Whether or not they can be in the temporary tanks you mention for 48 hours would depend on the fish, and their size and any filtration/aeration you would be able to have on them. If you have been feeding them lately, that would not help since they will foul the water for awhile.

Thanks for the quick reply! Mostly the water is just brown and cloudy to the point of being unable to see the fish clearly at all. There is no smell, and my ammonia levels are zero--so this isn't algae--it's just nitrates. It is dark outside now but tomorrow morning when I test the water again, I will add some photos. There are two smaller fish (about 8 inches), and 4 bigger fish (about 10-11 inches). I do realize we probably have too many in the tank as they continue to grow. (Also, I think my Mom was overfeeding them, which I've discussed with them). It's good to know that it's not too dangerous---but it's not a healthy eco-system at the moment--and you can't enjoy a koi pond when you can barely see the koi! I will test the water again in the morning and post some photos. I will see if anything changes between now and Monday (Father's Day and all---so we can give it time....but I'm concerned it isn't getting any better after all I've tried so far--which is why I was wondering if there is some leak and dirt/soil is getting in there.
Thanks so much!

 

[DMac]

As mentioned excessive cleaning of the filter does more harm then good 90% of the time. When you clean the filter pads your washing off the caught debris. but your also washing off to a degree the beneficial bacteria. And if you use the chlorinated water your killing whats left on the filter.

if you want some help take some pictures of the pond standing back showing the pond and the immediate area.

picture of the filter

and what type of food are you feeding the fish and how much .

city water ? well?

I tested the water coming out and it has very little chlorine--barely registering on the strip. So I won't clean the filters again. Photos tomorrow.

 

[DMac]

Good morning-
I tested the water again this morning. Ammonia is testing about 0 and my Ph is 7.6. The nitrate value is still sitting between 20-40pm. Attached are photos of the pond. We have a filter box that has different medium in there. I also have a waterfall box that has finer medium in there. There is more course filter at the top of (inside) the box we made (to the left of the waterfall). That's the food they are feeding now (we used the spring/fall blend until the temp outside hit 80 degrees). I have two lilies in the pond (potted in pea gravel. I also ordered some water lettuce which hasn't arrived (we had those last year and my Dad just forgot to order again). I just don't understand why it is it still so cloudy/brown. I put in the water clarifier and it says to wait 48 hours and then put the sludge remover. (So I was planning to add that Monday morning (since I added the water clarifier Sat morning). Thanks!

 

[JRS]

The pics are very helpful. Looks like you have a case of common green water algae. Typically found in ponds with higher nutrient levels (too many fish) and not enough plants. Not harmful, it like the plants, are using the nutrients in the water. If you look at my avatar at the left, I had issues with it also due to the high waste from the turtles.

Once I installed a small bog filter with cattails next to the pond, I have not had a problem since. Your water lettuce will help, if the koi do not eat it. Any other rooted bog plants in pots will help, perhaps you could place some in the waterfall area, does not look like you have a lot of shallow areas in the pond. Reducing food can help also. An UV clarifier will kill the suspended algae but would require regular maintenance.

 

[j.w]

and welcome @DMac
I agree more plants needed to suck up all those nutrients! If you still have large fish in there then the pond is overcrowded and making too much excrement for your filter to keep up with I'm afraid. 400 gal pond is good for a few goldfish but not koi.

 

[DMac]

It wasn't green-colored until this morning. I agree there are too many fish at the moment. When my parents moved here there were 12 koi in there and some were quite large. So, we got donated all of them, which was very difficult on my parents. I said 4 fish, I thought there were only 5--but now I see there are 6, and so I do feel that is too many. I would like to donate 2 fish and have 4---but we are not there yet (emotionally). The water lettuce will be coming sometime between tomorrow and Weds. Thanks so much for all the help! Also, I have two UV lights that were thru the filters that I was told to unplug when I was trying to do the sludge buster--so I have now turned those back on (seems they were working well!).

 

[Mgessert]

Add lots of plants in the pond and they will suck up the nitrates.

 

[Lisak1]

I do understand being attached to the fish, but when you realize that your "love" for them could LITERALLY mean death it makes the decision easier. Best for these fish to move on. It will make everything related to the pond easier for your parents to manage. Less filter cleaning, less algae, less concern about water quality.

Also - koi are entirely the wrong fish for this small pond. Talk to your parents about stocking the pond with goldfish - they come in beautiful colors, they are friendly and fun to feed, and they could have LOTS. If they keep koi they may have one or two fish. Way less fun in my opinion.

 

[addy1]

Welcome to the forum!